Comments on: Integrating Elites into the Church http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:57:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Lawrence Anderson http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-259778 Lawrence Anderson Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:52:04 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-259778 In my ward, instead of being referred to as Bro or Sis, physicians are called Doctor, and the college Pres. is called President. In my ward, instead of being referred to as Bro or Sis, physicians are called Doctor, and the college Pres. is called President.

]]> By: Lawrence Anderson http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-259777 Lawrence Anderson Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:51:52 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-259777 In my ward, instead of being referred to as Bro or Sis, physicians are called Doctor, and the college Pres. is called President. In my ward, instead of being referred to as Bro or Sis, physicians are called Doctor, and the college Pres. is called President.

]]> By: AF http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-258211 AF Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:45:58 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-258211 88: Cool. Good to know. 88: Cool. Good to know.

]]> By: Ray http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-258148 Ray Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:38:43 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-258148 AF (#86) - I have, many more than one. I also have known poor branch presidents, high councilors and counselors in bishoprics and stake presidencies. Plenty of them - and they were viewed as peers and equals by the rich ones by whose sides they served. AF (#86) – I have, many more than one. I also have known poor branch presidents, high councilors and counselors in bishoprics and stake presidencies. Plenty of them – and they were viewed as peers and equals by the rich ones by whose sides they served.

]]> By: Raymond Takashi Swenson http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-258139 Raymond Takashi Swenson Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:13:46 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-258139 #86 AF--Elder Christofferson is an attorney who worked as a corporate counsel in a number of states. He attended Duke University Law School with a former coworker of mine, who says Christofferson was always an outstanding student and member of their ward. Given the story of the pulpit in the Conference Center, it seems clear that President Hinckley was a person who appreciated a well-crafted pulpit (he insisted on the beehives). He has been insistent on having unique art in the construction of each of the new temples, such as the murals in the "world room" of the Rexburg Temple that show scenes of wildlife with the Grand Tetons in the background. The reconstruction of the Nauvoo Temple was an exercise in maximizing the use of hand-crafted components, from the windows to the individual hand-carved sunstones. Given the need to house congregations in third world countries, concentrating our art in the temples, and making our meetinghouses functional but pleasant, is a reasonable compromise. We should not forget that President Packer is a skilled artisan, creating lifelike sculptures of birds out of metal and paint. He could probably make a living at it. Many of the GAs have been noted for their appreciation of the art of literature, including President Hinckley and President McKay. #86 AF–Elder Christofferson is an attorney who worked as a corporate counsel in a number of states. He attended Duke University Law School with a former coworker of mine, who says Christofferson was always an outstanding student and member of their ward.

Given the story of the pulpit in the Conference Center, it seems clear that President Hinckley was a person who appreciated a well-crafted pulpit (he insisted on the beehives). He has been insistent on having unique art in the construction of each of the new temples, such as the murals in the “world room” of the Rexburg Temple that show scenes of wildlife with the Grand Tetons in the background. The reconstruction of the Nauvoo Temple was an exercise in maximizing the use of hand-crafted components, from the windows to the individual hand-carved sunstones. Given the need to house congregations in third world countries, concentrating our art in the temples, and making our meetinghouses functional but pleasant, is a reasonable compromise.

We should not forget that President Packer is a skilled artisan, creating lifelike sculptures of birds out of metal and paint. He could probably make a living at it. Many of the GAs have been noted for their appreciation of the art of literature, including President Hinckley and President McKay.

]]> By: AF http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-258119 AF Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:49:50 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-258119 I've never had a poor bishop or stake president, and the Twelve are all from elite fields, so I"m not exactly sure what you're talking about (caveat: I have no idea what Christofferson did prior to becoming a GA). I’ve never had a poor bishop or stake president, and the Twelve are all from elite fields, so I”m not exactly sure what you’re talking about (caveat: I have no idea what Christofferson did prior to becoming a GA).

]]> By: rowish http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-257850 rowish Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:21:49 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-257850 <i>Elder Christofferson lived for many years in the South but was born and raised in Utah. I am quite sure (though not entirely certain) that the same is true of Elder Clayton.</i> I would venture to say Christofferson's more Southern than Utah. Don't hold where someone was raised against him. That was a choice his parents made. Elder Christofferson's own personal choices suggest he's a Southerner at heart. Elder Christofferson lived for many years in the South but was born and raised in Utah. I am quite sure (though not entirely certain) that the same is true of Elder Clayton.

I would venture to say Christofferson’s more Southern than Utah. Don’t hold where someone was raised against him. That was a choice his parents made. Elder Christofferson’s own personal choices suggest he’s a Southerner at heart.

]]> By: Richard O. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-257634 Richard O. Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:52:46 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-257634 Leaders share their talents. CEO's tend to have very good organizational skills. Perhaps this is one reason that the general organization of wards and stakes, and even the entire Church, run relatively smoothly. But what if more people with other skill sets like artists filled more leadership slots? Would the quality of our Church architecture and art improve as well? What if scholars and writers filled more leadership roles? Would the quality of lessons and talks improve? However, this may be a little hypocritical on my part. Because deep down, actually not so deep down, I really don't want to attend lots of coordinating and planning meetings that absorb so much time of dedicated Church leaders. I appreciate those that enjoy, or at least are willing, to attend lots of those sorts of meetings because then I don't have to. But what if there was a Church calling to design and craft a really niffty pulpit (or any other piece of furniture) for our chapel? Now there is a thought that really warms up my blood! Perhaps if their were more artists in positions of Church leadership, I would be able to receive such a call. Sigh..... Leaders share their talents. CEO’s tend to have very good organizational skills. Perhaps this is one reason that the general organization of wards and stakes, and even the entire Church, run relatively smoothly. But what if more people with other skill sets like artists filled more leadership slots? Would the quality of our Church architecture and art improve as well? What if scholars and writers filled more leadership roles? Would the quality of lessons and talks improve?

However, this may be a little hypocritical on my part. Because deep down, actually not so deep down, I really don’t want to attend lots of coordinating and planning meetings that absorb so much time of dedicated Church leaders. I appreciate those that enjoy, or at least are willing, to attend lots of those sorts of meetings because then I don’t have to.

But what if there was a Church calling to design and craft a really niffty pulpit (or any other piece of furniture) for our chapel? Now there is a thought that really warms up my blood! Perhaps if their were more artists in positions of Church leadership, I would be able to receive such a call. Sigh…..

]]> By: Raymond Takashi Swenson http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-257547 Raymond Takashi Swenson Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:03:02 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-257547 I am not asserting that Mormons outclass everyone else in America or the world academically or in any other professional measure. And please note that I have never asserted that I am in any way an "elite" person myself. I just know a few people who meet the ordinary definition of "elites", the one that Michael Lindsay uses, such as my friends who attended Harvard Law. Rather, I am arguing that the Church is able to incorporate into its membership and leadership not only blue collar workers like my Dad but also people from the full range of education and professional experience, not only as members, but in useful leadership roles as well. We have places within the Church where anyone can be stretched, can use the talents they come with, while they develop their spiritual strengths. And I believe the Church as a whole and all of its members benefit from the inclusiveness of its membership and its widespread, and ever-changing, distribution of responsibilities. We all make ourselves available, and God sorts us out. I am not asserting that Mormons outclass everyone else in America or the world academically or in any other professional measure. And please note that I have never asserted that I am in any way an “elite” person myself. I just know a few people who meet the ordinary definition of “elites”, the one that Michael Lindsay uses, such as my friends who attended Harvard Law.

Rather, I am arguing that the Church is able to incorporate into its membership and leadership not only blue collar workers like my Dad but also people from the full range of education and professional experience, not only as members, but in useful leadership roles as well. We have places within the Church where anyone can be stretched, can use the talents they come with, while they develop their spiritual strengths. And I believe the Church as a whole and all of its members benefit from the inclusiveness of its membership and its widespread, and ever-changing, distribution of responsibilities.

We all make ourselves available, and God sorts us out.

]]> By: Steve Jones http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/integrating-elites-into-the-church/#comment-257521 Steve Jones Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:11:20 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4488#comment-257521 Not all GA's went to top flight schools. Elder Clayton went to a mid level law school UOP McGeorge in Sacramento. We went to school together and our school's only claim to fame was that Anthony Kennedy taught night Con Law while serving on the Ninth Circuit. #49, #56 Not necessarily must you be known to be called. Late In Pres. Joseph F. Smith's administration a vacancy in the twelve came and he asked for suggestions. Heber J. Grant felt strongly about an individual and made the suggestion. Pres. Smith chose someone else. Pres. Grant was upset and said the man he had suggested was the most qualified and that if he was ever in positon to call someone to the twelve he would be the person called. Later when Pres. Grant was president of the church he filled the vacancy in the twelve with a man he barely knew, who had been away as mission president in the north west for many years. Pres. Grant was asked why he did not call the man he had championed earlier and he responded that it was not his church and had called who the Lord wanted. The person called was Melvin J. Ballard grandfather of M. Russell Ballard. Not all GA’s went to top flight schools. Elder Clayton went to a mid level law school UOP McGeorge in Sacramento. We went to school together and our school’s only claim to fame was that Anthony Kennedy taught night Con Law while serving on the Ninth Circuit.
#49, #56 Not necessarily must you be known to be called. Late In Pres. Joseph F. Smith’s administration a vacancy in the twelve came and he asked for suggestions. Heber J. Grant felt strongly about an individual and made the suggestion. Pres. Smith chose someone else. Pres. Grant was upset and said the man he had suggested was the most qualified and that if he was ever in positon to call someone to the twelve he would be the person called. Later when Pres. Grant was president of the church he filled the vacancy in the twelve with a man he barely knew, who had been away as mission president in the north west for many years. Pres. Grant was asked why he did not call the man he had championed earlier and he responded that it was not his church and had called who the Lord wanted. The person called was Melvin J. Ballard grandfather of M. Russell Ballard.

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