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	<title>Comments on: And Yet Another Joseph Smith Photograph</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Alison Moore Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-256747</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Moore Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-256747</guid>
		<description>Oooo, Ardis! I&#039;ll get to photoshopping. I just need to find a wedding photo with my husband in profile where we aren&#039;t making out...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooo, Ardis! I&#8217;ll get to photoshopping. I just need to find a wedding photo with my husband in profile where we aren&#8217;t making out&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: barbara smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-256288</link>
		<dc:creator>barbara smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 04:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-256288</guid>
		<description>Thank you one and all for giving me a delightful Sabbath afternoon read. It was informative, and hugely entertaining. I&#039;ll be back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you one and all for giving me a delightful Sabbath afternoon read. It was informative, and hugely entertaining. I&#8217;ll be back.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-256278</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-256278</guid>
		<description>Right here, Alison. I&#039;ll post it, and we can look into the future and imagine the buzz that will occur when your image is discovered in 2058 and goes viral on whatever technology is in use then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right here, Alison. I&#8217;ll post it, and we can look into the future and imagine the buzz that will occur when your image is discovered in 2058 and goes viral on whatever technology is in use then.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison Moore Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-256268</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Moore Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 01:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-256268</guid>
		<description>BTW, if you want to see the authentic Joseph Smith profile, look at my husband from the side sometime. Apparently the profile went down the Samuel Smith line as well. When Sam and I were dating, my mom got such a kick out of making him turn to the side and pulling his hair back for her friends. He didn&#039;t get quite as much out of it. 

Maybe I&#039;ll take our wedding photo and superimpose Emma&#039;s head over mine. Where do I submit that for consideration?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, if you want to see the authentic Joseph Smith profile, look at my husband from the side sometime. Apparently the profile went down the Samuel Smith line as well. When Sam and I were dating, my mom got such a kick out of making him turn to the side and pulling his hair back for her friends. He didn&#8217;t get quite as much out of it. </p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;ll take our wedding photo and superimpose Emma&#8217;s head over mine. Where do I submit that for consideration?</p>
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		<title>By: Alison Moore Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-256267</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Moore Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 01:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-256267</guid>
		<description>All I know is that when my husband gets his next haircut, this pic will be the model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I know is that when my husband gets his next haircut, this pic will be the model.</p>
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		<title>By: rowish</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-255808</link>
		<dc:creator>rowish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-255808</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A reader has warned me that my 45 could be read as a not-so-veiled attack on Shannon Michael Tracy. Because Mr. Tracy has an IT background, used computer techniques in the work for his 1995 book In Search of Joseph, and almost certainly has used his computer expertise in preparation for his forthcoming book championing the Scannel daguerreotype as an authentic image of Joseph Smith, I understand how the reader reached that conclusion.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, so you want &lt;i&gt;algorithms&lt;/i&gt;, do you?  You want &lt;i&gt;computer science&lt;/i&gt;?

Bunk.  Any decent MS grad can make his algorithms support his bias.

As a gag, my advisor and I once submitted two papers to a conference taking opposite sides of an argument using the same data and the same algorithm.  

Both were accepted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A reader has warned me that my 45 could be read as a not-so-veiled attack on Shannon Michael Tracy. Because Mr. Tracy has an IT background, used computer techniques in the work for his 1995 book In Search of Joseph, and almost certainly has used his computer expertise in preparation for his forthcoming book championing the Scannel daguerreotype as an authentic image of Joseph Smith, I understand how the reader reached that conclusion.</i></p>
<p>Oh, so you want <i>algorithms</i>, do you?  You want <i>computer science</i>?</p>
<p>Bunk.  Any decent MS grad can make his algorithms support his bias.</p>
<p>As a gag, my advisor and I once submitted two papers to a conference taking opposite sides of an argument using the same data and the same algorithm.  </p>
<p>Both were accepted.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-255752</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-255752</guid>
		<description>A reader has warned me that my 45 could be read as a not-so-veiled attack on Shannon Michael Tracy. Because Mr. Tracy has an IT background, used computer techniques in the work for his 1995 book &lt;em&gt;In Search of Joseph&lt;/em&gt;, and almost certainly has used his computer expertise in preparation for his forthcoming book championing the Scannel daguerreotype as an authentic image of Joseph Smith, I understand how the reader reached that conclusion.

However, Mr. Tracy is not the only one to propose or use such techniques. Most of the &quot;forensics&quot; tests that have been suggested by readers on this and related posts involve computer technology -- facial recognition, digital reconstruction of Joseph&#039;s person drawing from all available sources, overlaying proposed images on photographs of the death masks and skulls, etc. Just this morning, a scholar who has investigated another proposed image (not the Scannel) showed me his own computer-based analysis. 

I repeat, as I have said multiple times in this and related threads: I am not attacking any individual. I am not targeting any proposed image as being any less likely a candidate than any other (except to the extent that, like the one in this post, it has been conclusively identified as NOT Joseph Smith). My purposes have been to suggest how historians might evaluate such claims, and to remind readers that standards of evidence should not be lowered simply because new tools are available, and to suggest how unfruitful a search for any photograph of Joseph Smith would likely be if undertaken in the manner that has apparently characterized the search so far. Those reminders and suggestions are intended for anyone who cares to read my posts, and are not aimed at any particular person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A reader has warned me that my 45 could be read as a not-so-veiled attack on Shannon Michael Tracy. Because Mr. Tracy has an IT background, used computer techniques in the work for his 1995 book <em>In Search of Joseph</em>, and almost certainly has used his computer expertise in preparation for his forthcoming book championing the Scannel daguerreotype as an authentic image of Joseph Smith, I understand how the reader reached that conclusion.</p>
<p>However, Mr. Tracy is not the only one to propose or use such techniques. Most of the &#8220;forensics&#8221; tests that have been suggested by readers on this and related posts involve computer technology &#8212; facial recognition, digital reconstruction of Joseph&#8217;s person drawing from all available sources, overlaying proposed images on photographs of the death masks and skulls, etc. Just this morning, a scholar who has investigated another proposed image (not the Scannel) showed me his own computer-based analysis. </p>
<p>I repeat, as I have said multiple times in this and related threads: I am not attacking any individual. I am not targeting any proposed image as being any less likely a candidate than any other (except to the extent that, like the one in this post, it has been conclusively identified as NOT Joseph Smith). My purposes have been to suggest how historians might evaluate such claims, and to remind readers that standards of evidence should not be lowered simply because new tools are available, and to suggest how unfruitful a search for any photograph of Joseph Smith would likely be if undertaken in the manner that has apparently characterized the search so far. Those reminders and suggestions are intended for anyone who cares to read my posts, and are not aimed at any particular person.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-255729</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-255729</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m having fun with the 1850 census.

That year, there were 866,452 free white males 30-39 years of age in the United States. Without provenance, any one of those young men is just about as likely as Joseph Smith as a candidate for being the subject of a random anonymous photograph.

If we had the provenance to tie a given image to Hancock County, Illinois, the number of most likely candidates suddenly shrinks to 644. 

That&#039;s still more than I would want to investigate, but it does give a rough idea of the value of provenance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having fun with the 1850 census.</p>
<p>That year, there were 866,452 free white males 30-39 years of age in the United States. Without provenance, any one of those young men is just about as likely as Joseph Smith as a candidate for being the subject of a random anonymous photograph.</p>
<p>If we had the provenance to tie a given image to Hancock County, Illinois, the number of most likely candidates suddenly shrinks to 644. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s still more than I would want to investigate, but it does give a rough idea of the value of provenance.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-255727</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-255727</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good point, Bill. I just checked the statistical abstracts for the 1850 census and learned that there were 938 daguerreotypists in the U.S. that year. For perspective, there were virtually the same number of box makers and cutlers, half as many buttonmakers, and only twice as many booksellers and basketmakers.

While there were probably many more daguerreotypists at the end of the 1840s than there were in the first half (Joseph Smith&#039;s &quot;window&quot;), there may have been very many who theoretically &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; have taken an image of Joseph.

At the same time, a large number of daguerreotypists who &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; have taken the image means a large number of images made overall -- not just in Joseph&#039;s &quot;window,&quot; but in the whole period of 1840 through, say, 1860, when anonymous portraits offer few clues to precise dating. To me, that is further evidence of the futility of grabbing at every anonymous portrait which looks somewhat like Joseph Smith and attempting to investigate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good point, Bill. I just checked the statistical abstracts for the 1850 census and learned that there were 938 daguerreotypists in the U.S. that year. For perspective, there were virtually the same number of box makers and cutlers, half as many buttonmakers, and only twice as many booksellers and basketmakers.</p>
<p>While there were probably many more daguerreotypists at the end of the 1840s than there were in the first half (Joseph Smith&#8217;s &#8220;window&#8221;), there may have been very many who theoretically <em>could</em> have taken an image of Joseph.</p>
<p>At the same time, a large number of daguerreotypists who <em>could</em> have taken the image means a large number of images made overall &#8212; not just in Joseph&#8217;s &#8220;window,&#8221; but in the whole period of 1840 through, say, 1860, when anonymous portraits offer few clues to precise dating. To me, that is further evidence of the futility of grabbing at every anonymous portrait which looks somewhat like Joseph Smith and attempting to investigate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill MacKinnon</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/and-yet-another-joseph-smith-photograph/#comment-255724</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill MacKinnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4472#comment-255724</guid>
		<description>Just a bit of perspective re the probablility that JS, Jr. could have had a photo taken on/near the frontier before his assassination in 1844. Apparently the craze over the photographic process was extraordinary as soon as it hit the U.S.  -- with how-to manuals and OJT courses being dispensed at lightning speed across the country on a basis not unlike the internet&#039;s acceptance in the mid-1990s. During the winter of 1846-47 the process was so wide-spread and portable that American photographers were recording the presence of Generals Wool and Taylor&#039;s troops in and near Saltillo, the capital of Mexican Coahuila (formerly the state of Coalhuila y Tejas) soon after the battle of Buena Vista. That&#039;s a pretty far distance and out -of-the-way place for the process to have travelled from the New York of 1840 where Daguerre&#039;s first manual landed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a bit of perspective re the probablility that JS, Jr. could have had a photo taken on/near the frontier before his assassination in 1844. Apparently the craze over the photographic process was extraordinary as soon as it hit the U.S.  &#8212; with how-to manuals and OJT courses being dispensed at lightning speed across the country on a basis not unlike the internet&#8217;s acceptance in the mid-1990s. During the winter of 1846-47 the process was so wide-spread and portable that American photographers were recording the presence of Generals Wool and Taylor&#8217;s troops in and near Saltillo, the capital of Mexican Coahuila (formerly the state of Coalhuila y Tejas) soon after the battle of Buena Vista. That&#8217;s a pretty far distance and out -of-the-way place for the process to have travelled from the New York of 1840 where Daguerre&#8217;s first manual landed.</p>
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