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	<title>Comments on: An Ethics of Teaching</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Ben H</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255895</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255895</guid>
		<description>I think LDS might have a distinctive perspective on the role of student freedom/agency in teaching. I&#039;m not sure exactly how to spell it out theoretically, but I&#039;ll give an example that is suggestive.

You don&#039;t have to be a Mormon to disagree with the idea that you should never insert your own point of view. I&#039;m afraid that teachers who scrupulously avoid taking a position are likely to teach their students to do the same thing: avoid taking a position! This is, of course, the exact opposite of the intended result, but I see a lot of evidence that this is what most students actually learn. There is a big difference between taking a position in class, though, and expecting your students to accept that position. In philosophy (which I teach), I don&#039;t grade students on the conclusions they come to; I grade them on the quality of their reasoning, and the understanding of the ideas we have studied that they display in expressing and supporting their own conclusions. So they certainly don&#039;t have to agree with me to get a good grade. But while I usually take the standard, &quot;hands-off&quot; approach, there are times when I think I need to take a position and defend it.

For example, I think my students have been pretty thoroughly taught not to have any ethical convictions. I have had some really unnerving discussions in class. One day we were reading Plato, and one of the characters, Callicles, had said that the strong have the moral right to take what they want. I asked my students what they thought of this idea, just to see if they were awake. Many of them said they thought Callicles was right. I asked them about some concrete instances to see if they were serious. I asked about slavery. No one was ready to say with confidence that slavery is wrong! To bring it into the present, I asked about child sex slavery (a problem, for example, in contemporary Thailand, but probably also in this country in a different form). One student was bold enough to say, slowly, as though it was a tough call, &quot;Well, &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; think child sex slavery is wrong, but that&#039;s just my personal opinion.&quot;  !@#%!!

Students need their teachers to model what it is to hold a well-reasoned opinion--for that matter to hold an opinion at all on some subjects! 

I think Mormons, though, for theological reasons, may have special resources for striking the right balance between the extremes of authoritarian teaching (which either leaves the students unpersuaded, or damages their ability to hold their own opinion), and &quot;hands-off&quot; teaching that is so &quot;hands-off&quot; that it teaches students to be indifferent, think everything is just opinion anyway, take no position, etc. In reality students need a more subtle cultivation of their ability to think. With most young students, at least, their ability to think well needs to be actively cultivated, and since broadly the same process of cultivating agency is (as I interpret it) what we believe God is doing with us, I think we may have a particularly good basis for (or at least reasons to try) understanding how this should work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think LDS might have a distinctive perspective on the role of student freedom/agency in teaching. I&#8217;m not sure exactly how to spell it out theoretically, but I&#8217;ll give an example that is suggestive.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have to be a Mormon to disagree with the idea that you should never insert your own point of view. I&#8217;m afraid that teachers who scrupulously avoid taking a position are likely to teach their students to do the same thing: avoid taking a position! This is, of course, the exact opposite of the intended result, but I see a lot of evidence that this is what most students actually learn. There is a big difference between taking a position in class, though, and expecting your students to accept that position. In philosophy (which I teach), I don&#8217;t grade students on the conclusions they come to; I grade them on the quality of their reasoning, and the understanding of the ideas we have studied that they display in expressing and supporting their own conclusions. So they certainly don&#8217;t have to agree with me to get a good grade. But while I usually take the standard, &#8220;hands-off&#8221; approach, there are times when I think I need to take a position and defend it.</p>
<p>For example, I think my students have been pretty thoroughly taught not to have any ethical convictions. I have had some really unnerving discussions in class. One day we were reading Plato, and one of the characters, Callicles, had said that the strong have the moral right to take what they want. I asked my students what they thought of this idea, just to see if they were awake. Many of them said they thought Callicles was right. I asked them about some concrete instances to see if they were serious. I asked about slavery. No one was ready to say with confidence that slavery is wrong! To bring it into the present, I asked about child sex slavery (a problem, for example, in contemporary Thailand, but probably also in this country in a different form). One student was bold enough to say, slowly, as though it was a tough call, &#8220;Well, <i>I</i> think child sex slavery is wrong, but that&#8217;s just my personal opinion.&#8221;  !@#%!!</p>
<p>Students need their teachers to model what it is to hold a well-reasoned opinion&#8211;for that matter to hold an opinion at all on some subjects! </p>
<p>I think Mormons, though, for theological reasons, may have special resources for striking the right balance between the extremes of authoritarian teaching (which either leaves the students unpersuaded, or damages their ability to hold their own opinion), and &#8220;hands-off&#8221; teaching that is so &#8220;hands-off&#8221; that it teaches students to be indifferent, think everything is just opinion anyway, take no position, etc. In reality students need a more subtle cultivation of their ability to think. With most young students, at least, their ability to think well needs to be actively cultivated, and since broadly the same process of cultivating agency is (as I interpret it) what we believe God is doing with us, I think we may have a particularly good basis for (or at least reasons to try) understanding how this should work.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255890</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255890</guid>
		<description>I think there is a dilemma in that it is not possible to tell the &#039;whole story&#039; at one time. The ethical problems (to me) are: 1) what parts of the story will be held back. 2) Who decides what is held back (the institution or the instructor). 3) Will there be an effort at some point to tell the whole story. 4) Should the whole story never to be told because it will cause contention within the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a dilemma in that it is not possible to tell the &#8216;whole story&#8217; at one time. The ethical problems (to me) are: 1) what parts of the story will be held back. 2) Who decides what is held back (the institution or the instructor). 3) Will there be an effort at some point to tell the whole story. 4) Should the whole story never to be told because it will cause contention within the community.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255884</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255884</guid>
		<description>#22: Wallace Stegner taught Writing at Stanford for decades and was considered a top teacher, but also a self admitted authoritarian. He said something like: &#039;A classroom doesn&#039;t need 31 students. It needs 30 students and a teacher. The teacher should know his subject, and teach it. The students should know they don&#039;t know the subject, or they are wasting time being in the class. The role of the teacher, is to get the students to think/or know like him. Not to become one of them.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#22: Wallace Stegner taught Writing at Stanford for decades and was considered a top teacher, but also a self admitted authoritarian. He said something like: &#8216;A classroom doesn&#8217;t need 31 students. It needs 30 students and a teacher. The teacher should know his subject, and teach it. The students should know they don&#8217;t know the subject, or they are wasting time being in the class. The role of the teacher, is to get the students to think/or know like him. Not to become one of them.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255882</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255882</guid>
		<description>&quot;Loving truth, even when it hurts.&quot;  Nice image, mlu.  I agree a good supply of facts should be part of teaching.  For LDS teaching, would this be historical facts?  Doctrinal facts (whatever that is)?  Institutional facts about the Church and how it works or is supposed to work?  Experiential facts drawn from the experience of class members, of other living individuals, or of historical individuals as represented by their writings or other source documents?

LDS manuals seem to regard LDS scripture and LDS historical documents (like the &lt;i&gt;History of the Church&lt;/i&gt;) as facts to use and GA commentary as the only allowable interpretive commentary for those facts.  Quotation of or even citation to any scholarship (even BYU profs or FARMS materials) to extend those facts or provide enlightening interpretive commentary seems verboten in manuals.  This seems like an unduly restrictive way to prepare a curriculum.  Correlation doesn&#039;t have to be this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Loving truth, even when it hurts.&#8221;  Nice image, mlu.  I agree a good supply of facts should be part of teaching.  For LDS teaching, would this be historical facts?  Doctrinal facts (whatever that is)?  Institutional facts about the Church and how it works or is supposed to work?  Experiential facts drawn from the experience of class members, of other living individuals, or of historical individuals as represented by their writings or other source documents?</p>
<p>LDS manuals seem to regard LDS scripture and LDS historical documents (like the <i>History of the Church</i>) as facts to use and GA commentary as the only allowable interpretive commentary for those facts.  Quotation of or even citation to any scholarship (even BYU profs or FARMS materials) to extend those facts or provide enlightening interpretive commentary seems verboten in manuals.  This seems like an unduly restrictive way to prepare a curriculum.  Correlation doesn&#8217;t have to be this way.</p>
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		<title>By: mlu</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255848</link>
		<dc:creator>mlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 04:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255848</guid>
		<description>I think the idea of teaching kids to think for themselves is somewhat overrated. I think the ability to think develops without much ado, if the learner is fed lots of information. I would say 90% of the useless teaching that goes on in public education is done in the name of teaching kids to think. Okay, I made up that number.

We use knowledge to think and until we know an awful lot about something, we won&#039;t think about it critically or intelligently. I favor a teaching heavy with knowledge and facts, usually. It&#039;s true these are readily available but it&#039;s not true lots of student readily look them up, and facts organized for particular purposes can have the force of revelation.

I do think we can help students think better--with more complexity--by drawing their attention to anomalies in their thinking, but the best way to do this is usually just to present yet another fact that their theory doesn&#039;t adequately account for. It&#039;s an abundance of information that makes better thinking necessary and that also makes it possible.

People who know an awful lot about a topic, whether that&#039;s global warming or early church history or the mechanics of an internal combustion engine, tend to think about those topics quite skillfully. People who lack the facts usually do an abysmal job.

I think this works the same for Mormons and others.

I do think when we are teaching religious beliefs where so much of the knowledge is subjective, we sometimes start by telling young people not how to think but what to think. Hopefully, they will be through some of the worst crises before their innate tendency for critical thinking kicks in. I know lots of critical thinkers, for example, who did their own thinking about marriage and the meaning of their sexuality, who&#039;ve made quite a botch of things. It would have been better if they had followed the wise counsel of teachers who thought it mattered that they thought correctly more than it mattered whether their thinking was original.

People who believe that they know truths that arise from revelation will often teach about those truths differently than will people who believe truth has different origins. Ethically, I think a bearer of revealed truth has a higher obligation to those truths than to students, or, at least, it would be a harm to those students not to stand first for those truths.

The most important teaching is a love of truth which is taught by loving truth, even when it hurts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the idea of teaching kids to think for themselves is somewhat overrated. I think the ability to think develops without much ado, if the learner is fed lots of information. I would say 90% of the useless teaching that goes on in public education is done in the name of teaching kids to think. Okay, I made up that number.</p>
<p>We use knowledge to think and until we know an awful lot about something, we won&#8217;t think about it critically or intelligently. I favor a teaching heavy with knowledge and facts, usually. It&#8217;s true these are readily available but it&#8217;s not true lots of student readily look them up, and facts organized for particular purposes can have the force of revelation.</p>
<p>I do think we can help students think better&#8211;with more complexity&#8211;by drawing their attention to anomalies in their thinking, but the best way to do this is usually just to present yet another fact that their theory doesn&#8217;t adequately account for. It&#8217;s an abundance of information that makes better thinking necessary and that also makes it possible.</p>
<p>People who know an awful lot about a topic, whether that&#8217;s global warming or early church history or the mechanics of an internal combustion engine, tend to think about those topics quite skillfully. People who lack the facts usually do an abysmal job.</p>
<p>I think this works the same for Mormons and others.</p>
<p>I do think when we are teaching religious beliefs where so much of the knowledge is subjective, we sometimes start by telling young people not how to think but what to think. Hopefully, they will be through some of the worst crises before their innate tendency for critical thinking kicks in. I know lots of critical thinkers, for example, who did their own thinking about marriage and the meaning of their sexuality, who&#8217;ve made quite a botch of things. It would have been better if they had followed the wise counsel of teachers who thought it mattered that they thought correctly more than it mattered whether their thinking was original.</p>
<p>People who believe that they know truths that arise from revelation will often teach about those truths differently than will people who believe truth has different origins. Ethically, I think a bearer of revealed truth has a higher obligation to those truths than to students, or, at least, it would be a harm to those students not to stand first for those truths.</p>
<p>The most important teaching is a love of truth which is taught by loving truth, even when it hurts.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255840</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 02:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255840</guid>
		<description>and now I have no idea what your concern is . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and now I have no idea what your concern is . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255830</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255830</guid>
		<description>#19: Then I apologize. I will stay with quotes. &quot;I just donâ€™t think itâ€™s necessary...(to) spend a large percentage of time in a lesson focusing on those potential mis-perceptions.&quot; and &quot;Why insert it into a lesson in any way that takes time from the intended discussion?&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19: Then I apologize. I will stay with quotes. &#8220;I just donâ€™t think itâ€™s necessary&#8230;(to) spend a large percentage of time in a lesson focusing on those potential mis-perceptions.&#8221; and &#8220;Why insert it into a lesson in any way that takes time from the intended discussion?&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255825</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255825</guid>
		<description>Bob, don&#039;t misrepresent my comments.  Your critique in #18 doesn&#039;t address what I actually wrote in the slightest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, don&#8217;t misrepresent my comments.  Your critique in #18 doesn&#8217;t address what I actually wrote in the slightest.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255818</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255818</guid>
		<description>#15: Ray, to say the Church only speaks in &#039;half-truths&#039; because of lack of time, is a half-truth. It has had over a hundred years to clarify some issues, and has not.

 It is true, we can never reach Full Truth, but that is still is the goal we seek.

#13: Raymond, you just went to a better school than I did, In Art, we never got passed Rockwell. I am a Swede, which means I tell the truth, the whole truth, and sometimes even MORE that the whole truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#15: Ray, to say the Church only speaks in &#8216;half-truths&#8217; because of lack of time, is a half-truth. It has had over a hundred years to clarify some issues, and has not.</p>
<p> It is true, we can never reach Full Truth, but that is still is the goal we seek.</p>
<p>#13: Raymond, you just went to a better school than I did, In Art, we never got passed Rockwell. I am a Swede, which means I tell the truth, the whole truth, and sometimes even MORE that the whole truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/an-ethics-of-teaching/#comment-255816</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4473#comment-255816</guid>
		<description>Ryan, there is a big difference between clarifying something that might be misleading and bringing something up simply because it isn&#039;t mentioned.  I will never be opposed to clearing up a mis-perception; I actually think that is a duty and obligation of church leadership, including teaching.  (For example, I will correct anyone in Gospel Doctrine who says, &quot;The Church rejects evolution.&quot;  That just isn&#039;t true, even if it is a fairly common mis-conception.)  [Please, no threadjack on that topic.]  I just don&#039;t think it&#039;s necessary to anticipate every possible mis-perception and spend a large percentage of time in a lesson focusing on those potential mis-perceptions.  That&#039;s a priority choice, not an obligation.  

Again, realizing it is impossible to teach the &quot;whole truth&quot;, each teacher needs to teach the concept or principle that is the heart of the lesson the best way possible.  Using the polygamy sentence, it might be appropriate when reading it to add something like, &quot;which includes practicing it&quot; - then moving on.  To discuss it or elaborate on it means taking time from the lesson focus - literally prioritizing the polygamy discussion over the intended lesson.  The manual clearly says it doesn&#039;t address polygamy.  Why insert it into a lesson in any way that takes time from the intended discussion?  

Just to make this clear: I have no problem &quot;bring(ing) up something thatâ€™s not in the manual and the scriptures&quot;.  I agreed with discussing the evolution of priesthood offices.  I interject comments and insights from the Bloggernacle, Bushman, outside experts, etc. regularly when I speak in various wards and teach lessons - at all levels.  I just try to make sure it contributes to a better understanding of the main principle of the lesson and won&#039;t turn the lesson into a contentious debate among the members in the class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, there is a big difference between clarifying something that might be misleading and bringing something up simply because it isn&#8217;t mentioned.  I will never be opposed to clearing up a mis-perception; I actually think that is a duty and obligation of church leadership, including teaching.  (For example, I will correct anyone in Gospel Doctrine who says, &#8220;The Church rejects evolution.&#8221;  That just isn&#8217;t true, even if it is a fairly common mis-conception.)  [Please, no threadjack on that topic.]  I just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s necessary to anticipate every possible mis-perception and spend a large percentage of time in a lesson focusing on those potential mis-perceptions.  That&#8217;s a priority choice, not an obligation.  </p>
<p>Again, realizing it is impossible to teach the &#8220;whole truth&#8221;, each teacher needs to teach the concept or principle that is the heart of the lesson the best way possible.  Using the polygamy sentence, it might be appropriate when reading it to add something like, &#8220;which includes practicing it&#8221; &#8211; then moving on.  To discuss it or elaborate on it means taking time from the lesson focus &#8211; literally prioritizing the polygamy discussion over the intended lesson.  The manual clearly says it doesn&#8217;t address polygamy.  Why insert it into a lesson in any way that takes time from the intended discussion?  </p>
<p>Just to make this clear: I have no problem &#8220;bring(ing) up something thatâ€™s not in the manual and the scriptures&#8221;.  I agreed with discussing the evolution of priesthood offices.  I interject comments and insights from the Bloggernacle, Bushman, outside experts, etc. regularly when I speak in various wards and teach lessons &#8211; at all levels.  I just try to make sure it contributes to a better understanding of the main principle of the lesson and won&#8217;t turn the lesson into a contentious debate among the members in the class.</p>
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