Comments on: Joy and Anguish

By: Brian Duffin

Brian Duffin — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:12:39 +0000

Thanks for the post. It was a good reminer to get a refill on my Wellbutrin.

I could probably quote scripture, but I like how Denis Leary put it: “Life sucks, get a helmet.”

By: Kathryn Lynard Soper

Kathryn Lynard Soper — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:38:36 +0000

Thanks for clarifying, Ben. I get what you’re saying now, and I agree.

By: Jonovitch

Jonovitch — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:12:31 +0000

Susan M (8), two points for citing HÃ¼sker DÃ¼.

Jon

By: Ben H

Ben H — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:02:34 +0000

Kathryn, perhaps I need to clarify better what I mean by medicalization. It’s not the use of drugs that I’m particularly skeptical of. It’s the assumption that feeling bad or sad or anxious or depressed is categorically the wrong way to feel. There are some things that happen to people that they should be anxious, sad, or depressed about. There are some things where this is the right response. We acknowledge this with what we call “grief”. We recognize that grieving is proper and healthy under certain circumstances. It seems to me that this model might call for application with regard to quite a few other “negative” (for lack of a better word) emotional states. There are cases where people feel bad for merely physiological reasons, and those need to be addressed physiologically, often including medication. It sounds like you and your children are in that category. Further, if someone experiences a traumatic event or situation to which the right, proper emotional response is to be depressed for weeks or months or whatever, she or he will need to cope in various ways to continue with the business of living. This sensible coping may include medication. But I don’t think that means those are the wrong emotions to have. We read that Christ experienced emotions that a mortal person cannot feel and remain alive. Were those the wrong emotions? Elijah wanted to die. It wasn’t because of something wrong with him. It was because of something wrong with the world he was living in. We need to retain the ability to locate the causes where they are.

By: Melinda

Melinda — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:25:34 +0000

DW – “I am so tired of Mormons saying that â€œhappinessâ€ is what is most important.”

You know, I didn’t like the name change from “plan of salvation” to “plan of happiness.” Salvation is so much more profound and long-term and religious. Happiness is what happens when you go to Disneyland.

Here’s an interesting article about how medical science is just guessing at the chemical imbalances involved in depression. Sorry I don’t know how to make it a real link, so you’ll have to cut and paste it. http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113226807554400588.html?mod=todays_free_feature

By: DW

DW — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:00:50 +0000

Ben,

Loved the post as well as your comment (#13). As someone who specializes in theoretical and philosophical issues in psychology, I know that we need to do some deeper thinking about happiness, depression, and “the good life.”

I would never say that antidepressants never have their place. And I have no reason to try to convince a particular person who I don’t even know that they shouldn’t take them. However, I would argue that the pharmacological treatment of mental disorders is mostly a sophisticated sham that is all about (a) making money and (b) helping psychology/psychiatry to establish itself as a credible medical practice. The notion that depression is ultimately a “chemical imbalance” is (a) a questionable assumption and (b) fails to ask if there could possibly be something that is more underlying — what CAUSES the chemical imbalance, we might ask? I do think there is a biological component to depression (as there is for everything), but that’s not the same as attributing some kind of efficient causal link to biology. I guarantee you that most of the people who specialize in this science have never even thought about any of this. Of course, none of this is to say that we shouldn’t take clinical depression seriously.

I am so tired of Mormons saying that “happiness” is what is most important. This takes various subtle forms: “You can choose to be happy if you want to.” “Ultimately, God wants us to be happy.” “If you’re not happy, do something for someone else.” etc.

Now, there is is (sort of) a scriptural foundation for this: “Wickedness never was happiness,” “the plan of happiness,” and “men are that they might have joy.” Joseph Smith also said, “Happiness is the object and design of our existence.”

The problem, however, is that we don’t think very deeply about what might be meant by “happiness” or even “joy.” I think that for the most part it is thought of in individualistic and instrumental terms. That is, it is ultimately about individual happiness and everything we do should be for the means of obtaining that end. Because of this, I think we would be better off if we, for the most part, removed the word “happiness” from our doctrinal vocabularies. Otherwise, we can very easily fall into the trap of replacing “happiness” as our God. We might do well to think of being one with God as meaningful/important/fundamental/virtuous in its own right, and not simply because it “makes us happy.”

There is a really good BYU Studies article about this by Brent Slife, in which he warns Christians of falling into the traps of the false idols of hedonism, moralism, and relativism: http://brentdslife.com/article/upload/religion/Family%20Values%20and%20Relationality.pdf

I like to counter Mormon culture’s instrumental-happiness-reflex by responding these ways to the following questions (such as in Sunday School):

What are the benefits of service? (As opposed to it making me happy) The most important benefit comes to the person who is served.
Why do we have trials and sorrows? (As opposed to it making me happier in the end) It’s the type of life that God lives.

By: Kathryn Lynard Soper

Kathryn Lynard Soper — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:17:43 +0000

Antidepressants have saved three lives in my family, figuratively and perhaps literally. Thank God.

Ben, I would imagine that there are some users of antidepressant medication who could find relief through other avenues. But there are many who cannot. I think you should be cautious about dismissing the physiological aspect to depression. For some people, the chemical imbalances may indeed be caused by emotional/spiritual distress, rather than the other way around. But even some of these folks may need antidepressants to begin to benefit from emotional/spiritual therapy. It can be incredibly difficult, even impossible, to begin to heal if one’s chemisty is out of whack.

In my case, self-doubt and fear caused by questions similar to yours above led to over a decade of unnecessary suffering. Over the past couple of years I’ve finally come to terms with my depression, which has a strong genetic component, just in time to be sane enough to get treatment for the two of my children who desperately need it. Before “just taking some pills,” these children (ages nine and twelve) “wanted to die,” as did I.

By: Ben H

Ben H — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:53:21 +0000

Elijah wanted to die. Does that count as depression? Should he have just taken some pills? Nephi, Moroni, Alma, and others experienced something that sounds like depression. There were reasons for their experiences that did not simply reduce to physiological disfunction. As some have noted from reading my post, I am doubtful about the medicalization of melancholy, sorrow, depression, whatever you want to call it. Surely there are cases where what we are seeing is a mere physiological disfunction. However, if someone becomes depressed due to divorce, losing a job, or some other serious disappointment, there is more than physiology involved. Some of the articles linked are definitely looking in a similar direction. I particularly enjoyed the Chronicle piece. When someone feels bad, but we think he or she shouldn't, and we try to fix things with positive psychology or drugs or whatever, how often are we just trying to ignore something deeper, perhaps something that we don't spiritually understand? How often are we trying to mask something that actually needs to be addressed in another way? How often are we basically taking an aspirin to dull the pain when actually there is something else wrong that needs to be corrected?

By: Kathryn Lynard Soper

Kathryn Lynard Soper — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:16:43 +0000

Melinda #4–

Amen, and amen. Thank you.

By: R.W. Rasband

R.W. Rasband — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 03:43:02 +0000

Here is something I always kind of intuited:

BBC News–Is Depression Good For You?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7268496.stm