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	<title>Comments on: The Silent Core of Mormonism</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Nate Oman</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246898</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Oman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks everyone for your comments.  I am going to close this thread now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for your comments.  I am going to close this thread now.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246897</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246897</guid>
		<description>#89: Annegb, if your only answer to people is &quot;We do what was done in the Temples of the Bible.&quot;, you&#039;re going to leave the impression of &quot;we sacrifice animals....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#89: Annegb, if your only answer to people is &#8220;We do what was done in the Temples of the Bible.&#8221;, you&#8217;re going to leave the impression of &#8220;we sacrifice animals&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Boysen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246895</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Boysen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246895</guid>
		<description>In Enoch the Prophet Hugh Nibley  wrote:

. . . The Zohar states the general principle: whenever the Holy One has allowed the deep mysteries of wisdom to be brought down into the world of mankind, they have become corrupted, and men have attempted to declare war on God. The only redeeming feature of the thing was that the fallen angels who perverted the human race had not learned all of the mysteries in their heavenly condition (weâ€™re told in a Gizeh fragment), and so were not able to give away everything. As it was, their power for evil was almost unlimited.

That texts of the temple ordinances are available on the internet and the mockery of Holy things in the same venue is symptomatic of the same processes at work today, and a sign that the same antagonists are still out there. Our leaders have been forced to pull things back from us because we, collectively, have allowed this to be so.

I fear that there are many things that are being lost to the church, much as they were at the time of the great apostasy. Things are slipping from us because so many in the church as live on borrowed light. When I joined the church I was given to understand that there is a lot more knowledge that we are still waiting to receive, but that we would not get it until we live what we have already received. Throughout my church experience I have heard of many things that would seem to be of great beauty that are no longer practiced. We are moving backwards, but how can it be otherwise in a world where the prophets must remind us of laws we already know and have promised to obey or when they have to speak boldly of secret sins before the innocent and enlarge their wounds rather than speak the words to heal their souls and lead them to greater light.

The righteous will loose nothing by it in the end, because all will be restored eventually, but in my earthly state I envy those from the earlier days of this dispensation who could look to receiving more while here in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Enoch the Prophet Hugh Nibley  wrote:</p>
<p>. . . The Zohar states the general principle: whenever the Holy One has allowed the deep mysteries of wisdom to be brought down into the world of mankind, they have become corrupted, and men have attempted to declare war on God. The only redeeming feature of the thing was that the fallen angels who perverted the human race had not learned all of the mysteries in their heavenly condition (weâ€™re told in a Gizeh fragment), and so were not able to give away everything. As it was, their power for evil was almost unlimited.</p>
<p>That texts of the temple ordinances are available on the internet and the mockery of Holy things in the same venue is symptomatic of the same processes at work today, and a sign that the same antagonists are still out there. Our leaders have been forced to pull things back from us because we, collectively, have allowed this to be so.</p>
<p>I fear that there are many things that are being lost to the church, much as they were at the time of the great apostasy. Things are slipping from us because so many in the church as live on borrowed light. When I joined the church I was given to understand that there is a lot more knowledge that we are still waiting to receive, but that we would not get it until we live what we have already received. Throughout my church experience I have heard of many things that would seem to be of great beauty that are no longer practiced. We are moving backwards, but how can it be otherwise in a world where the prophets must remind us of laws we already know and have promised to obey or when they have to speak boldly of secret sins before the innocent and enlarge their wounds rather than speak the words to heal their souls and lead them to greater light.</p>
<p>The righteous will loose nothing by it in the end, because all will be restored eventually, but in my earthly state I envy those from the earlier days of this dispensation who could look to receiving more while here in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk Reid</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246894</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246894</guid>
		<description>Jack, your reply is meaningless and an inane comparison of two completely different things and issues. Your sex life isn&#039;t already in the public domain and all its rituals and spiritual content the subject of a long and well known ancient tradition that is communal human historiographical property, however much the currently authoritative practice of it rests with our Church.

Unless it is, in which case that&#039;s impressive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, your reply is meaningless and an inane comparison of two completely different things and issues. Your sex life isn&#8217;t already in the public domain and all its rituals and spiritual content the subject of a long and well known ancient tradition that is communal human historiographical property, however much the currently authoritative practice of it rests with our Church.</p>
<p>Unless it is, in which case that&#8217;s impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246893</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246893</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When I tell people about the temple, like my daughter before she went, I say, â€œItâ€™s a lot like church, only more reverent and everybodyâ€™s dressed in white and you promise sacred things.â€&lt;/i&gt;

Not bad.  Before I went a lot of people warned me that the temple ceremony was kind of weird and if I wasn&#039;t open-minded I&#039;d get spooked, so I was a little creeped out.  My mother anxiously asked if I was OK after, and I remember saying, &#039;uh, it was pretty much like Church.&#039;

On the other hand, I told my wife this story before she took out her endowment, and she was weirded out by how different the temple was from church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When I tell people about the temple, like my daughter before she went, I say, â€œItâ€™s a lot like church, only more reverent and everybodyâ€™s dressed in white and you promise sacred things.â€</i></p>
<p>Not bad.  Before I went a lot of people warned me that the temple ceremony was kind of weird and if I wasn&#8217;t open-minded I&#8217;d get spooked, so I was a little creeped out.  My mother anxiously asked if I was OK after, and I remember saying, &#8216;uh, it was pretty much like Church.&#8217;</p>
<p>On the other hand, I told my wife this story before she took out her endowment, and she was weirded out by how different the temple was from church.</p>
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		<title>By: annegb</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246892</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246892</guid>
		<description>Just before I went to the temple, a friend pulled out all her temple clothes and explained how you put them on during the ceremony, etc. I was totally befuddled.  Now, of course, I realize that probably wasn&#039;t proper.

The other day, I was doing a search on something, I can&#039;t remember exactly, it might have been for a type of camisole,  completely blank on exactly what it was, but a site popped up and I really had to look at it for a moment before I realized what it was.

A man and a woman were modeling the temple clothes and then there was a picture next to it of them both in their garments (boy, you know, even with garments, some people are just not pretty).  I was stunned and really really angry.  Personally angry at those people.  What difference did it make to the world that they did that?  None. It demeaned them and made them look small.

When I tell people about the temple, like my daughter before she went, I say, &quot;It&#039;s a lot like church, only more reverent and everybody&#039;s dressed in white and you promise sacred things.&quot;

Once my 13 year old son (that would be about 20 years ago) came to me and said someone at school said we had sexual orgies in the temple.  I, of course, said, &quot;absolutely not.&quot;  He didn&#039;t say anything, but I could tell he didn&#039;t quite trust me.  So I said, &quot;Can you honestly picture John (our bishop and neighbor) and Cathy doing anything like that?&quot;  And the light went on and he was comforted.

I&#039;ve also had people claim to me that we sacrifice animals in the temple.

I&#039;m not troubled by those sorts of things.  Those are on those who perpetrate the lies.  We are certainly strong enough to survive.  Despite my flippancy, I keep sacred things sacred.

Off the subject, sort of, when I was a Jack Mormon, I thought that those who had been to the temple were so far above me that I looked at them with some kind of reverence (despite my lack of obedience).  I honestly thought they were sanctified, special, in some way so much better than I that I could never be good enough. 

 Now I&#039;m careful to tell other Jack Mormons &quot;I&#039;m no different from you.  I have my struggles, we are all human.  I made some promises and I&#039;m trying to keep them.  It&#039;s entirely possible for you to achieve the status of a recommend holder.&quot;

And totally off topic:  Nate, I was reading the Ensign the other night, I can&#039;t recall which month, but I first skim them, then I read them, study them carefully and read every word.  I was completely jazzed to see your letter to the editor praising their treatment of Mountain Meadow (I completely agree).  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just before I went to the temple, a friend pulled out all her temple clothes and explained how you put them on during the ceremony, etc. I was totally befuddled.  Now, of course, I realize that probably wasn&#8217;t proper.</p>
<p>The other day, I was doing a search on something, I can&#8217;t remember exactly, it might have been for a type of camisole,  completely blank on exactly what it was, but a site popped up and I really had to look at it for a moment before I realized what it was.</p>
<p>A man and a woman were modeling the temple clothes and then there was a picture next to it of them both in their garments (boy, you know, even with garments, some people are just not pretty).  I was stunned and really really angry.  Personally angry at those people.  What difference did it make to the world that they did that?  None. It demeaned them and made them look small.</p>
<p>When I tell people about the temple, like my daughter before she went, I say, &#8220;It&#8217;s a lot like church, only more reverent and everybody&#8217;s dressed in white and you promise sacred things.&#8221;</p>
<p>Once my 13 year old son (that would be about 20 years ago) came to me and said someone at school said we had sexual orgies in the temple.  I, of course, said, &#8220;absolutely not.&#8221;  He didn&#8217;t say anything, but I could tell he didn&#8217;t quite trust me.  So I said, &#8220;Can you honestly picture John (our bishop and neighbor) and Cathy doing anything like that?&#8221;  And the light went on and he was comforted.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also had people claim to me that we sacrifice animals in the temple.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not troubled by those sorts of things.  Those are on those who perpetrate the lies.  We are certainly strong enough to survive.  Despite my flippancy, I keep sacred things sacred.</p>
<p>Off the subject, sort of, when I was a Jack Mormon, I thought that those who had been to the temple were so far above me that I looked at them with some kind of reverence (despite my lack of obedience).  I honestly thought they were sanctified, special, in some way so much better than I that I could never be good enough. </p>
<p> Now I&#8217;m careful to tell other Jack Mormons &#8220;I&#8217;m no different from you.  I have my struggles, we are all human.  I made some promises and I&#8217;m trying to keep them.  It&#8217;s entirely possible for you to achieve the status of a recommend holder.&#8221;</p>
<p>And totally off topic:  Nate, I was reading the Ensign the other night, I can&#8217;t recall which month, but I first skim them, then I read them, study them carefully and read every word.  I was completely jazzed to see your letter to the editor praising their treatment of Mountain Meadow (I completely agree).  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246891</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246891</guid>
		<description>Talk about accidents! LoI!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talk about accidents! LoI!</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246890</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246890</guid>
		<description>Maybe it&#039;s better the other way. Great Art can happen by accident as well as epiphany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it&#8217;s better the other way. Great Art can happen by accident as well as epiphany.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246889</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246889</guid>
		<description>#83: CORRECTION : Jack&#039;s sex life is a metaphor of the sacred. (and something to do with mirrors)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#83: CORRECTION : Jack&#8217;s sex life is a metaphor of the sacred. (and something to do with mirrors)</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/01/the-silent-core-of-mormonism/#comment-246888</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4343#comment-246888</guid>
		<description>Dang! I wanted to say &quot;infinite mirrors&quot; in #84.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dang! I wanted to say &#8220;infinite mirrors&#8221; in #84.</p>
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