The wonderful folk at the Westboro Baptist Church have announced plans to picket President Hinckley’s funeral. These nutters — who are not affiliated with mainstream Baptists — are known for marching at U.S. soldier funerals with placards that read, “God Hates F***s.”
Yesterday’s muddled press release (warning: the URL is itself offensive, and the press release is pretty bad) states that President Hinckley and Mormons generally are “[gay] enablers” and announces that therefore, “Gordon Hinckley is in Hell.”
My understanding of the constitutional issues is that the First Amendment probably protects these kinds of protests. It will be interesting to see church member reaction. Hopefully, members will be able to avoid the urge to escalate, which would only play into the protesters’ hands.
The people who associate with Westboro Baptist Church are, to a man, deluded fools, moral idiots, and outright bastards. I say that as a Kansas resident and as one completely unapologetic about the language I just used to describe them. There is no polite way to express the contempt that all right-thinking people have for these lunatic grandstanders.
The irony of a church picketing the funeral of a man who taught religious tolerance is not lost on me…
I don’t get it, why would the picket signs announce that God hates them? ;)
Amen, Russell. There really is no other way to describe what they do.
When I went to click on the link Kaimi provided, my firm\’s firewall blocked me. Usually it gives a reason like \”high bandwidth\” or \”streaming video.\” In this case, though, the reason given was \”intolerance/extremism.\” The firewall has spoken….
It is an honor to be picketed by these folks. We must be doing something right.
Well said, Russell.
And yet, I’m having a hard time finding outrage here, because these people are so obviously deluded. I mean, their number-one complaint about President Hinckley is apparently that he supported gays. I find that just bizarre. President Hinckley did a number of great things; but he wasn’t really known as a vocal advocate of gay rights, was he?
The WBC’s description is mind-boggling. It can only be explained, I think, by the fact that the WBC thinks that _everyone_ is a gay supporter.
It’s times like these when the likes of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins feel vindicated.
So sad. My thoughts and prayers are with President Hinckley’s family.
Haha Richards. I was about to comment about my firewall saying it was blocked due to \’intolerance/racism.\’
Shame our freedom of speech doesn’t extend to the use of firehoses…..call it performance art :/
They’re picketing for the same reason they’re picketing Heath Ledgers funeral, publicity.
And every Mormon blog that talks about it is helping them.
I disagree with the Westboro Baptist Church. But I am glad they have the right to express their opinion.
Kaimi,
I think the bit about Pres. Hinckley being pro-gay is from his counsel to love them. What an insanely un-christian thing to do!
@ Last Lemming (6),
Yes, it is a validation of sorts to be picketed by Westboro Baptist Church. It means that we are a high-profile element of American life in the 2000s. I think future history textbooks might mention the Westboro Baptists when covering our era.
My firm’s firewall is less advanced, apparently.
Their beef with Hinckley seems to be primarily the Lorenzo Snow couplet about “as man is, God once was; as God is, man may become”. To wit, they’re mad at him for ENDORSING the couplet.
Oh, the irony . . .
I agree with Fox.
Also we get picketed all the time at GC, temple open houses, and pageants. So they are not exactly trail-blazing.
Although its a bit unusual for an anti-gay org to picket a church with strong anti homosexual sex teachings and policies.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The church has clearly stated its position on homosexuality, i.e., that it is inconsistent with God’s plan of salvation and morally wrong, which has drawn fire from the powerful, pro-gay lobby. At the very same time, however, the church is drawing criticism from extreme evangelicals asserting that it is gay-enabling. Of course, it’s impossible to please everyone all the time. But at least the church can stand tall knowing that it is pleasing the only one that counts: God.
How very, very sad. God must weep when he sees the antics of these folks. They are offensive to just about everyone, but seem to have a knack for displaying their rights of free speech at the places that will get them nothing but scorn and pity.
I can’t muster more than a sigh and a shrug. Everybody knows what these people are and the only power they have is what is given them through reactions. Would I like to knock their teeth out? Sure, but not any more now than when they do this nonsense at the funerals of war dead. Which is, of course, exactly what they want.
Proof of President Hinckley’s prophetic gifts: he made a point of teaching forgiveness and turning the other cheek over the last few years. ;)
These people do what they do but at the same time I cannot help but see them as the other side of the extremist coin. Sad pitiful people.
By the way, there are generic “disturbing the peace” statutes, that if these folks run afoul of, you can have them arrested.
Everyone always assumes that Free Speech means there’s nothing you can do about highly reprehensible behavior and it really just isn’t true.
It would be nice if the Patriot Guard Riders would show up. Pres. Hinckley was not a military veteran, but he loved his native land, and received its highest civilian award, the Medal of Freedom.
Maybe Soulforce will show up to picket also and then two groups can duke it out.
Well, at least we managed to get the Main Street Plaza easement issue resolved before this.
Something tells me the Westboro Jesus looks (and behaves) a lot like Rambo. I’m with Taysom on ignoring them, though perhaps it’s useful for us as LDS in gaining sympathy for gays harangued by hate-mongering freudian implosions like the Westboro crew.
The Constitution doesn\’t protect people\’s \”right\” to say whatever they dang well please. It states the Congress has no right to stop them.
Fortunately for the citizens of America, we aren\’t Congress.
Is ignorance really bliss?
As an evangelical Christian who has no problem with street preaching to Mormons in UT, I have a message for Westboro Baptist Church:
GO HOME.
These guys aren’t Christians, they have zero sense of love, and they simply love the attention.
Well said, AS. We have no leg to stand on if we complain about street preaching to Mormons, but this is another thing altogether.
Generally the official Church response to such ill-considered public tantrums is to ignore them. I believe this is a wise policy, born out of many years of experience dealing with such circumstances.
Public demonstrations are staged to attact attention. We should probably make sure that accurate and truthful information is readily available to counter the arguments of demonstrators, but it would be counterproductive to devote much effort to silencing them. Better to deprive them of their objective by withholding an official response.
That said, there is always something to be gained by efforts made on a more personal level. Those who have cause to interact with these demonstrators should be careful to maintain composure and comport themselves with good will, as appropriately representing the Church — and President Hinckley.
I thought the official Church response was to out-loud them via stereos blasting songs from the hymnal and children’s songbook. Admittedly this entirely based on my single experience with anti-LDS protesters (the 2006 Palmyra pageant.) It was actually fairly cool: the music created a wall of sound that basically meant you could only hear the protests while crossing the street: in the parking lot you only heard children’s songs, and once you entered the pageant area, you could only hear the hymns.
The folks at Westboro go out of their way to be offensive, and in general seem to be attempting to redefine the concept of “bad taste” after their own image. I agree with Last Lemming’s #6.
Incidentally: doesn’t the Church own most of the property around the Tabernacle/Conference Center? It seems to me the protests will by definition resemble whatever happens at General Conference.
The BBC produced a great documentary about Westboro entitled “The Most Hated Man In America.” I can’t find a link to view it online (maybe somebody else can), but there’s a summary here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6507971.stm
It’s well worth watching. I’ve been familiar with this organization for years, and have told many people: The members of Westboro Baptist Church are the best friends the gay community could ever have. Think about it.
The whole BBC doc is available on Google Video:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4413388146858417528
I’m tempted to show up with my own placard reading “God Hates Kissups.”
…or maybe this instead.
Mike and Jeremy, thanks for the links. That BBC journalist is hilarious in that I can’t believe he remains so improbably polite and dispassionate. I can’t help but recall Dave Chapelle’s Black White Supremacist and the long-sufferingly objective journalist reporting on him.
What a mess. I completely agree with previous comments #6, #33: being picketed by WBC is an unintentional honor, and WBC does a fantastic job of unintentionally converting people away from homophobia.
Although the press release emphasizes doctrinal issues with the LDS church, you can bet that the few Westbro protesters that show up will be displaying their standard signs that God Hates [gays] and God Hates America, etc. The truth is, what the Phelps clan are saying is “Mormons are too tolerant of sinners.” The LDS attitude currently is “hate the sin, love the sinner.” Phelps would have us hate the sinners.
I was going to comment that, after having watched the Louis Theroux documentary (the BBC one referenced above) when it was broadcast, I felt a huge sorrow for the younger members of the WBC. They seemed like normal nice kids, who don\’t stand much of a chance, given the family they have been born into, and I think Theroux felt that too.
BTW Theroux has done several of these type of documentaries. His one on the White Supremacists was jaw dropping for those of us outwith the US.
My firewall blocked it due to “racism and hate.”
Intellectually I can dismiss these people as complete lunatics and idiots, but spiritually I know I should love my enemies. Pretty hard at a time like this, though.
That was unclear. My firewall blocked the link that Kaimi put up. Also the second link from Jeremy above. The BBC video is great.
Intellectually I can dismiss these people as complete lunatics and idiots, but spiritually I know I should love my enemies. Pretty hard at a time like this, though.
With people like this I just tell myself that I’m still in the “reproving betimes with sharpness” phase…
Wow, I just watched that documentary. Fascinating. I don’t remember the last time a documentary piqued my curiosity like that. Many of them were so likable, especially the 20-something law student. I so badly wanted to talk to her — she seemed so reasonable.
“spiritually I know I should love my enemies. Pretty hard at a time like this, though.”
If you watch the documentary I think you’ll love most of them. Fred Phelps plays a run-of-the-mill cult-leader ass, but the rest are merely deceived and obviously not haters. I wish Theroux had interviewed the four Phelps children who’d left the group.
I know it’s not very Christ like, but sometimes I wish ‘freedom of speech’ included putting my boot in Fred Phelps hind end. This guy gives all Christian religions a bad name.
Where is Orrin Porter Rockwell when you need him? All in favor of a 9th Quorum of the Seventy, known informally as “the Danites” please manifest…
#45: There’s the next J.J. Abrams television concept: Mormon “Black Ops.”
The LDS Chruch is one the most persecuted against churches in American history. We have a long, long history of intolerant and violent acts of hate being directed towards us and our ancestors. The Westboro Baptist Chruch can just get in line. They are nowhere near the wrost we have seen and we stand firm in our faith.
re: 47 Yeah, I agree with that. Westboro is so over the top, it’s almost funny. Sometimes I wonder if they’re some kind of clandestine parody group. There’s a point in the BBC documentary where the wife makes some hateful comment about fags or some-such, then kinda gives Theroux a wink-wink as if to communicate “I know how ridiculous this is.” They’re a fascinating group if you can get past their rhetoric and see them as people. You’ve got to wonder, what on earth makes these people tick? Is it really just attention seeking? They march around with some of the most hateful signs imaginable, but when you listen to them in that documentary they seem much less hateful than some other more acceptable Evangelicals (Dobson comes to mind).
I would urge us all to not even go close to the corner they are protesting on. Don’t give them an audience!
I personally have a bigger problem with them protesting at solidiers’ funerals, since those families don’t have a Temple Square buffer zone to protect the peace. A silver lining would be if President Hinckley’s funeral draws the group away from a soldier’s funeral.
Re: 29, Agent Shafavoloff
WBC, if Aaronshaf tells you to go home, you might wanna reconsider your approach.
Mike #48, I don’t know the wink-wink you’re mentioning, but do you remember how the law student laughed when she tells Theroux he’s going to hell, and he asks her about it a couple times? She never has a very good answer, but it seemed to me that she laughed because she realized how ridiculous it would sound to outsiders.
Everybody knows these folks for what they are, and our best action is to just ignore them. The less credence we give them, the more they pale in comparison to us. Don’t yell at them, don’t talk to them, just ignore them.
The last thing we want is to be known as the church that went all postal on the Westboro folks.
For what it’s worth, at large Gay Pride events they are typically behind a police barrier in a designated protest area. Lots of gay couples have fun standing in front of them, kissing, and getting their picture taken. It’s almost a tradition. I agree with Kevinf: It would be unfortunate if the LDS took them seriously or over-reacted. That’s playing right into their hands.
For Jeremy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/LifeOnaPlate/Misc/wbc2.jpg
BHodges: brilliant work, sir!
In addition to disturbing the peace as was already mentioned, tresspassing and disrupting a religious service (a misdemeanor in Utah), such as were brought against this woman might be brought.
For me though, it’s simply my duty to ignore them and focus on the issue at hand—worshipping the Lord in response to the emulable life’s work of one of His prophets.
I have been in sacrament meetings before when individuals of other faiths have come to the pulpit to criticize the Church during fast and testimony meeting. In one, the Bishop’s counsellors stood up and escorted the person out of the building. I have been in other meetings where a person has stood up and criticized the Bishop loudly, once making a threat on his life. Let’s not forget what happened to President Hunter with Cody Judy. Fast and testimony meeting went on—with testimony. The other meetings went on—withaccomplishment. President Hunter went on with his talk. “Life has a fair number of challenges in it,” he said, ” as demonstrated.” and that was his only mention of a bomb threat minutes before.
As for President Hinckly at the Christmas devotional two years ago, he didn’t even flinch.
\”They’re picketing for the same reason they’re picketing Heath Ledger[\’]s funeral, publicity.\”
Well, Ledger also played a gay cowboy in a blockbuster hit, which President Hinckley did not do, last time I checked.
re: 58
So I guess that makes their presence at Ledger’s funeral OK, CK?
Jeremy: Don’t thank me; thank MS Paint.
What about using their own tactics against them?
Not responding in anger, but responding with humor. The media is all about the novel and sensational: usually these situations end with a bunch of people getting mad at the WBC and that\’s that. Why not brandish signs with amusing and light hearted non-sequitors like \”My atheist god thinks you need a hug\” or \”WBC secretly
#61 … \”WBC secretly–\” what?
I had planned to join WBC, stand in their midst with a two-sided sign on a tall pole. The side facing them would say something critical and ambiguous, and the second side which would face the on-lookers, would say “NOW ACCEPTING DONATIONS. VISA, CASH OR HUMAN SACRIFICE.”
Good thing I didn’t because I might be the only one who found that funny. Also, I hear WBC was a no-show.