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	<title>Comments on: The Feast of Saint Tithing Settlement</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-246831</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-246831</guid>
		<description>Martha, perhaps so he could talk with both of you, since you hadn&#039;t been able to attend the previous tithing settlement meeting?  Again, I don&#039;t know the situation, but what you have provided seems fairly innocuous to someone who has had to make similar arrangements concerning various issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martha, perhaps so he could talk with both of you, since you hadn&#8217;t been able to attend the previous tithing settlement meeting?  Again, I don&#8217;t know the situation, but what you have provided seems fairly innocuous to someone who has had to make similar arrangements concerning various issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-246829</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-246829</guid>
		<description>Ray - We understand that a full tithe is a requirement for a Temple recommend. My husband understood his inference that we should not attend the Temple until it was not an issue. That is actually why my recommend was expired, I knew I could not say we had paid a full tithe. 

My concern is this. Why, after my husband had already spoken to the Bishop regarding this matter, were we called in a second time? I thought once tithing settlement was over it was over. 

There have been other times (not that I am proud of this) that we have not been full tithe payers and have never been called back to be chastised a second time. 

No, I did not have hard feelings towards the Bishop previously although I do feel that he is an arrogant man in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray &#8211; We understand that a full tithe is a requirement for a Temple recommend. My husband understood his inference that we should not attend the Temple until it was not an issue. That is actually why my recommend was expired, I knew I could not say we had paid a full tithe. </p>
<p>My concern is this. Why, after my husband had already spoken to the Bishop regarding this matter, were we called in a second time? I thought once tithing settlement was over it was over. </p>
<p>There have been other times (not that I am proud of this) that we have not been full tithe payers and have never been called back to be chastised a second time. </p>
<p>No, I did not have hard feelings towards the Bishop previously although I do feel that he is an arrogant man in general.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-246816</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-246816</guid>
		<description>Typing mistakes = fatigue.  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typing mistakes = fatigue.  Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-246815</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-246815</guid>
		<description>Martha, I can&#039;t address the way the Bishop handled it, since I wasn&#039;t there to observe it, since I only am getting one perspective on the situation and since I have no stewardship or authority to judge that type of thing for someone else.  (For example, while I like to begin any meeting with a member with a short prayer, there is no requirement to do so - and I have held short and focused meetings without doing so.  With only what you have provided, I can&#039;t even say for sure if I would have felt like the &quot;meeting&quot; needed to being and/or end with a prayer.)  

However, I can tell you that paying a full tithe is a requirement to hold an active temple recommend and attend the temple.  Having qualified in the past is not a guarantee of the right to attend for the &quot;normal duration&quot; (now 2 years) of a recommend.  From a strictly technical standpoint, the Bishop was well within his rights to ask for your recommends until you could honestly declare to be paying a full tithe.  

Fwiw, I would take a hard look at why you are feeling this way and try hard not to direct your disappointment at the Bishop - assuming you did not have prior bad feelings.  If you already ahd hard feelings, this situation is not the root - and you need to get to the heart of that root.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martha, I can&#8217;t address the way the Bishop handled it, since I wasn&#8217;t there to observe it, since I only am getting one perspective on the situation and since I have no stewardship or authority to judge that type of thing for someone else.  (For example, while I like to begin any meeting with a member with a short prayer, there is no requirement to do so &#8211; and I have held short and focused meetings without doing so.  With only what you have provided, I can&#8217;t even say for sure if I would have felt like the &#8220;meeting&#8221; needed to being and/or end with a prayer.)  </p>
<p>However, I can tell you that paying a full tithe is a requirement to hold an active temple recommend and attend the temple.  Having qualified in the past is not a guarantee of the right to attend for the &#8220;normal duration&#8221; (now 2 years) of a recommend.  From a strictly technical standpoint, the Bishop was well within his rights to ask for your recommends until you could honestly declare to be paying a full tithe.  </p>
<p>Fwiw, I would take a hard look at why you are feeling this way and try hard not to direct your disappointment at the Bishop &#8211; assuming you did not have prior bad feelings.  If you already ahd hard feelings, this situation is not the root &#8211; and you need to get to the heart of that root.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-246812</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-246812</guid>
		<description>My husband went to tithing settlement without me at the end of the year. He reported to the Bishop that we had not paid a full tithe. The Bishop encouraged my husband to pay a full tithe, gave him a copy of a talk about tithing, and then inferred he should not attend the Temple until he had paid tithing for three months in a row. 

I was horrified at our transgression. I felt heartbroken for many days and resolved to be a full tithe payer in the new year.

This week we were called back into to speak with the Bishop again. He asked for both of us to come in, which we did (this is now in January). He asked what our plan was for tithing this year. We told him our intention was to repent and to be full tithe payers. He was pleased with our answer and then asked for our Temple Recommends. He said he wanted to \&quot;hold onto them for awhile\&quot;

Mine had expired but my husbands was current. When he told the Bishop he did not have it with him the Bishop said he would come to the house to pick it up. 

Is this normal? I am in tears and was not even able to speak after the Bishop asked for the recommends. He never offered a word of prayer before or after the meeting. I simply felt like a loan was being called in.

If someone, preferably a Bishop or someone who has served as a Bishop could shed some light I would be grateful. I am having very bad feelings about our Bishop right now and I want to be able to understand if this is normal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband went to tithing settlement without me at the end of the year. He reported to the Bishop that we had not paid a full tithe. The Bishop encouraged my husband to pay a full tithe, gave him a copy of a talk about tithing, and then inferred he should not attend the Temple until he had paid tithing for three months in a row. </p>
<p>I was horrified at our transgression. I felt heartbroken for many days and resolved to be a full tithe payer in the new year.</p>
<p>This week we were called back into to speak with the Bishop again. He asked for both of us to come in, which we did (this is now in January). He asked what our plan was for tithing this year. We told him our intention was to repent and to be full tithe payers. He was pleased with our answer and then asked for our Temple Recommends. He said he wanted to \&#8221;hold onto them for awhile\&#8221;</p>
<p>Mine had expired but my husbands was current. When he told the Bishop he did not have it with him the Bishop said he would come to the house to pick it up. </p>
<p>Is this normal? I am in tears and was not even able to speak after the Bishop asked for the recommends. He never offered a word of prayer before or after the meeting. I simply felt like a loan was being called in.</p>
<p>If someone, preferably a Bishop or someone who has served as a Bishop could shed some light I would be grateful. I am having very bad feelings about our Bishop right now and I want to be able to understand if this is normal.</p>
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		<title>By: Talon</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-244989</link>
		<dc:creator>Talon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-244989</guid>
		<description>#37

I was in our ward counsel a couple of weeks ago when one of the counselors handed our Bishop a $100 bill from a donor that wished to remain anonymous. Our Bishop commented (after we had made some good hearted jokes about his &quot;slush fund&quot;) that these kind of donations were welcome at this time of year because they could be distributed at the Bishopric&#039;s discretion without having to go through the red tape involved if it had to come out of the fast offering fund. For instance, if he knew of a family with children that couldn&#039;t buy presents he could simply give them the money, either directly, or pass it on anonymously for a second time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#37</p>
<p>I was in our ward counsel a couple of weeks ago when one of the counselors handed our Bishop a $100 bill from a donor that wished to remain anonymous. Our Bishop commented (after we had made some good hearted jokes about his &#8220;slush fund&#8221;) that these kind of donations were welcome at this time of year because they could be distributed at the Bishopric&#8217;s discretion without having to go through the red tape involved if it had to come out of the fast offering fund. For instance, if he knew of a family with children that couldn&#8217;t buy presents he could simply give them the money, either directly, or pass it on anonymously for a second time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonovitch</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-244944</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonovitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-244944</guid>
		<description>1. My brother-in-law-in-law who lives in Germany pays his tithing and fast offerings online, using the Church&#039;s bank&#039;s routing number and the ward&#039;s account number.  

I don&#039;t know how that is processed and recorded in MLS, but it would definitely help me to stay on top of paying tithing. I generally try to pay at the beginning of the month, together with a fast offering, but often find myself sitting in church smacking my head because I forgot the checkbook again.  Doh!  

2. End-of-year tax implications aside, December is a terrible month to do tithing settlement.  It&#039;s the most calendar- and budget-straining time of the year.  I hate having to squeeze in Yet Another Meeting (and making the bishop/clerks do the same) while trying to pinch pennies to make sure we are up to the full ten percent.  (This year is especially difficult, since we just moved, causing all sorts of havoc in our tithing tracking and payment.)  

Much better would be February and March.  Nothing big going on then, and I&#039;d have had time to pay off bills and credit cards from the annual Santaday splurge-a-thon and possibly receive my tax refund.  (I&#039;m not really out of control -- I can actually tell you at the end of each month, down to the penny, what our family&#039;s net worth is.  It just happens to be a very large negative number right now.)  

Jon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. My brother-in-law-in-law who lives in Germany pays his tithing and fast offerings online, using the Church&#8217;s bank&#8217;s routing number and the ward&#8217;s account number.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how that is processed and recorded in MLS, but it would definitely help me to stay on top of paying tithing. I generally try to pay at the beginning of the month, together with a fast offering, but often find myself sitting in church smacking my head because I forgot the checkbook again.  Doh!  </p>
<p>2. End-of-year tax implications aside, December is a terrible month to do tithing settlement.  It&#8217;s the most calendar- and budget-straining time of the year.  I hate having to squeeze in Yet Another Meeting (and making the bishop/clerks do the same) while trying to pinch pennies to make sure we are up to the full ten percent.  (This year is especially difficult, since we just moved, causing all sorts of havoc in our tithing tracking and payment.)  </p>
<p>Much better would be February and March.  Nothing big going on then, and I&#8217;d have had time to pay off bills and credit cards from the annual Santaday splurge-a-thon and possibly receive my tax refund.  (I&#8217;m not really out of control &#8212; I can actually tell you at the end of each month, down to the penny, what our family&#8217;s net worth is.  It just happens to be a very large negative number right now.)  </p>
<p>Jon</p>
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		<title>By: PnGrata</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-244838</link>
		<dc:creator>PnGrata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-244838</guid>
		<description>45 - We&#039;re asked to declare wherever our membership records are.  Furthermore, your home ward doesn&#039;t have any of the donation information, so the bookkeeping aspect fails entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>45 &#8211; We&#8217;re asked to declare wherever our membership records are.  Furthermore, your home ward doesn&#8217;t have any of the donation information, so the bookkeeping aspect fails entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Belle</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-244743</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-244743</guid>
		<description>#44 - Some those students may prefer like to attend and declare their tithing status in their home wards.  When I was a student at BYU, this was my practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#44 &#8211; Some those students may prefer like to attend and declare their tithing status in their home wards.  When I was a student at BYU, this was my practice.</p>
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		<title>By: PnGrata</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/12/the-feast-of-saint-tithing-settlement/#comment-244720</link>
		<dc:creator>PnGrata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4296#comment-244720</guid>
		<description>As a ward clerk, I\&#039;m mulling over online payments as I type.  I\&#039;m in a single\&#039;s ward, and it very hard to get people to show up - even though we do it right after the block and after FHE, which seem plenty convenient times to me.  My last ward (covering SVU in Virginia), we would actually go up on campus and lie in wait to ambush ward members to cajole them into coming.  It\&#039;s alot of work, and the Bishop still winds up making a declaration for over half the membership - little hint, the default is \&quot;non-tithe\&quot; if you\&#039;ve got \&quot;0\&quot;s, and \&quot;part-tithe\&quot; if you don\&#039;t.  I think TS is about stewardship and accountability, as mentioned above.  It\&#039;s so the Bishop knows how his ward is doing in living the commandments, kind of like how home teachers are supposed to ask if their teachees are saying their prayers and reading their scriptures and report it in PPI (not that that gets done either...).  If you pay online, would you feel like discussing it with the Bishop?  Would you respond to a boiler-plate email from Church HQ asking if you\&#039;re a full tithe payer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a ward clerk, I\&#8217;m mulling over online payments as I type.  I\&#8217;m in a single\&#8217;s ward, and it very hard to get people to show up &#8211; even though we do it right after the block and after FHE, which seem plenty convenient times to me.  My last ward (covering SVU in Virginia), we would actually go up on campus and lie in wait to ambush ward members to cajole them into coming.  It\&#8217;s alot of work, and the Bishop still winds up making a declaration for over half the membership &#8211; little hint, the default is \&#8221;non-tithe\&#8221; if you\&#8217;ve got \&#8221;0\&#8221;s, and \&#8221;part-tithe\&#8221; if you don\&#8217;t.  I think TS is about stewardship and accountability, as mentioned above.  It\&#8217;s so the Bishop knows how his ward is doing in living the commandments, kind of like how home teachers are supposed to ask if their teachees are saying their prayers and reading their scriptures and report it in PPI (not that that gets done either&#8230;).  If you pay online, would you feel like discussing it with the Bishop?  Would you respond to a boiler-plate email from Church HQ asking if you\&#8217;re a full tithe payer?</p>
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