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	<title>Comments on: The Joy of God</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Rand</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242631</link>
		<dc:creator>Rand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242631</guid>
		<description>God weeps because of our sins. He is not particularly concerned with our pains and sufferings.  These carry vital lesssons within them that God is fully willing to allow us to suffer in order to learn.  Suffering without a vital lesson does not occur. That is why we have been commanded to give thanks to God in all things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God weeps because of our sins. He is not particularly concerned with our pains and sufferings.  These carry vital lesssons within them that God is fully willing to allow us to suffer in order to learn.  Suffering without a vital lesson does not occur. That is why we have been commanded to give thanks to God in all things.</p>
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		<title>By: meems</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242340</link>
		<dc:creator>meems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242340</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t enjoy anything unless everybody is.  You know, if one guy is starving someplace, that&#039;s ... you know,  it puts a crimp in my evening. 

- Annie Hall

I often think about the suffering in this world, and feel bad that I don&#039;t have the emotional connection, empathy and compassion for my far-flung brothers and sisters that would make me more miserable! ;-)   With HF&#039;s omniscience and love for all the children on this earth, how could he not be somewhat sad most of the time?  I feel so bad when I make wrong choices because it&#039;s just another cause for sorrow to my Father in Heaven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t enjoy anything unless everybody is.  You know, if one guy is starving someplace, that&#8217;s &#8230; you know,  it puts a crimp in my evening. </p>
<p>- Annie Hall</p>
<p>I often think about the suffering in this world, and feel bad that I don&#8217;t have the emotional connection, empathy and compassion for my far-flung brothers and sisters that would make me more miserable! ;-)   With HF&#8217;s omniscience and love for all the children on this earth, how could he not be somewhat sad most of the time?  I feel so bad when I make wrong choices because it&#8217;s just another cause for sorrow to my Father in Heaven.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242319</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 05:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242319</guid>
		<description>No discussion of this topic should continue for very long without reference to Eugene England&#039;s magnificent and moving essay, &lt;a href=&quot;http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/dialogue,28651&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;The Weeping God of Mormonism.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

Enoch, the one who sees God weeping and marvels at it, finally is shown a grand vision made up of extremes--joy and sorrow.  The result is that his heart eventually &quot;swells as wide as eternity.&quot; Not because the good outweighs the bad, but because (as I interpret it) the sheer volume of both, and their coexistence, is so overwhelming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No discussion of this topic should continue for very long without reference to Eugene England&#8217;s magnificent and moving essay, <a href="http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/dialogue,28651" rel="nofollow">&#8220;The Weeping God of Mormonism.&#8221;</a></p>
<p>Enoch, the one who sees God weeping and marvels at it, finally is shown a grand vision made up of extremes&#8211;joy and sorrow.  The result is that his heart eventually &#8220;swells as wide as eternity.&#8221; Not because the good outweighs the bad, but because (as I interpret it) the sheer volume of both, and their coexistence, is so overwhelming.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242300</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242300</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; agree that Heavenly Father has a more abundant life. I think you are saying that a more abundant life equates to feeling emotions that are beyond typical human emotions, such as split emotions (e.g., feeling sorrow in one part of his being while simultaneously feeling joy in another part of his being), or complex-compound emotions, (e.g., feeling a single feeling of joy mixed with sorrow). However, couldnâ€™t living a more abundant life also mean simply experiencing a magnification of distinct human emotions? It makes more sense to me that way.&lt;/i&gt;

You understand me well.  And I understand you.  Obviously we have no real way of knowing, short of asking God.  

My reasons for speculating the way I do are as follows:
---if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, I can&#039;t see him having emotional swings.
---As Matt E. points out, good and evil that God cares about are happening simultaneously all the time.  I don&#039;t want to say that God can rejoice because I&#039;m repenting or sorrow because someone else is sinning but not both.  I think he has to be able to do both if he&#039;s to be God to both of us.
---None of us wants to trade away or forget our experiences.  They mean too much, and this includes the sad and the bitter ones.  I want to think that God &#039;has all things before his face&#039; and this means that even the past is real and immediate to him, because it means that someday I too may be able to have my old selves and my old friends and my old places and my old times and my old sorrows and joys back again, and I don&#039;t see how unless we can eventually learn to take everything in at once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> agree that Heavenly Father has a more abundant life. I think you are saying that a more abundant life equates to feeling emotions that are beyond typical human emotions, such as split emotions (e.g., feeling sorrow in one part of his being while simultaneously feeling joy in another part of his being), or complex-compound emotions, (e.g., feeling a single feeling of joy mixed with sorrow). However, couldnâ€™t living a more abundant life also mean simply experiencing a magnification of distinct human emotions? It makes more sense to me that way.</i></p>
<p>You understand me well.  And I understand you.  Obviously we have no real way of knowing, short of asking God.  </p>
<p>My reasons for speculating the way I do are as follows:<br />
&#8212;if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, I can&#8217;t see him having emotional swings.<br />
&#8212;As Matt E. points out, good and evil that God cares about are happening simultaneously all the time.  I don&#8217;t want to say that God can rejoice because I&#8217;m repenting or sorrow because someone else is sinning but not both.  I think he has to be able to do both if he&#8217;s to be God to both of us.<br />
&#8212;None of us wants to trade away or forget our experiences.  They mean too much, and this includes the sad and the bitter ones.  I want to think that God &#8216;has all things before his face&#8217; and this means that even the past is real and immediate to him, because it means that someday I too may be able to have my old selves and my old friends and my old places and my old times and my old sorrows and joys back again, and I don&#8217;t see how unless we can eventually learn to take everything in at once.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242296</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 03:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242296</guid>
		<description>#14 - &quot;does that mean he has to always be feeling conflicting emotions at the same time?&quot;  

Of course not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14 &#8211; &#8220;does that mean he has to always be feeling conflicting emotions at the same time?&#8221;  </p>
<p>Of course not.</p>
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		<title>By: Keva</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242285</link>
		<dc:creator>Keva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 02:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242285</guid>
		<description>Eastern religions believe that all people suffer, yet by detaching from the emotions that suffering brings, one can have greater compassion for those that suffer.  I believe that God has limitless compassion for us.  He understands why we suffer, yet He knows that we each have a divine seed that will allow us to rise above wordly suffering and become like Him. True compassion is not sympathy, it is empathy.

In our limited view, it can be easy to forget this.  But I believe He always has hope.  And when he sees even a small step towards this &quot;goal&quot;, it must bring great joy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eastern religions believe that all people suffer, yet by detaching from the emotions that suffering brings, one can have greater compassion for those that suffer.  I believe that God has limitless compassion for us.  He understands why we suffer, yet He knows that we each have a divine seed that will allow us to rise above wordly suffering and become like Him. True compassion is not sympathy, it is empathy.</p>
<p>In our limited view, it can be easy to forget this.  But I believe He always has hope.  And when he sees even a small step towards this &#8220;goal&#8221;, it must bring great joy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242258</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242258</guid>
		<description>Trying to comprehend Godliness in our present state isn&#039;t a useless effort, but even with all that&#039;s been revealed we just don&#039;t come away from such exercises feeling like we&#039;re close to the answer.

Consider the following description of God:

has all power
knoweth all things
like devouring fire
past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord
descended below all things
created all things 
comprehendeth all things
God is perfect
God is love
Father of our spirits
mankind is his work and glory
comprehended all things
eventually He will give to the faithful &quot;all that He hath.&quot;

Wow!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trying to comprehend Godliness in our present state isn&#8217;t a useless effort, but even with all that&#8217;s been revealed we just don&#8217;t come away from such exercises feeling like we&#8217;re close to the answer.</p>
<p>Consider the following description of God:</p>
<p>has all power<br />
knoweth all things<br />
like devouring fire<br />
past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord<br />
descended below all things<br />
created all things<br />
comprehendeth all things<br />
God is perfect<br />
God is love<br />
Father of our spirits<br />
mankind is his work and glory<br />
comprehended all things<br />
eventually He will give to the faithful &#8220;all that He hath.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wow!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan S.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242252</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242252</guid>
		<description>#11, 13 - Is there really a single &quot;joy/sorrow&quot; feeling, or is it a mixture of competing emotions as we think about different things?  I think about the times when I&#039;ve felt a joy mixed with sorrow, but I was vacillating between feelings by thinking about the joyous thing and the sorrowful thing in my mind, conflicted as to which emotion was going to win out in the end.  In the end, for me, one emotion tends to overpower or outweigh the other, or one tends to fade more quickly than the other.

On the other hand, some scriptures describe Christ as being filled with two opposing attributes, justice and mercy, which implies a need for him to feel two conflicting emotions, so that he can judge us perfectly.  However, does that mean he has to always be feeling conflicting emotions at the same time?  The emotions would either be (1) constantly in conflict so as to create a never-ending state of mental conflict (like a sinusoidal wave of emotions) or (2) in complete equilibrium (like counter balancing vectors).  To me, this portrays either a very erratic sense of emotions or a very boring sense of emotions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#11, 13 &#8211; Is there really a single &#8220;joy/sorrow&#8221; feeling, or is it a mixture of competing emotions as we think about different things?  I think about the times when I&#8217;ve felt a joy mixed with sorrow, but I was vacillating between feelings by thinking about the joyous thing and the sorrowful thing in my mind, conflicted as to which emotion was going to win out in the end.  In the end, for me, one emotion tends to overpower or outweigh the other, or one tends to fade more quickly than the other.</p>
<p>On the other hand, some scriptures describe Christ as being filled with two opposing attributes, justice and mercy, which implies a need for him to feel two conflicting emotions, so that he can judge us perfectly.  However, does that mean he has to always be feeling conflicting emotions at the same time?  The emotions would either be (1) constantly in conflict so as to create a never-ending state of mental conflict (like a sinusoidal wave of emotions) or (2) in complete equilibrium (like counter balancing vectors).  To me, this portrays either a very erratic sense of emotions or a very boring sense of emotions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob M</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242250</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242250</guid>
		<description>5 -  ask a parent how they feel when their child moves to a distant location, and it will involve joy and sorrow.  Definitely not the same type of joy and sorrow talked about here, but definitely two differing emotions at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>5 &#8211;  ask a parent how they feel when their child moves to a distant location, and it will involve joy and sorrow.  Definitely not the same type of joy and sorrow talked about here, but definitely two differing emotions at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan S.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/11/the-joy-of-god/#comment-242249</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4238#comment-242249</guid>
		<description>#9 - I agree that Heavenly Father has a more abundant life.  I think you are saying that a more abundant life equates to feeling emotions that are beyond typical human emotions, such as split emotions (e.g., feeling sorrow in one part of his being while simultaneously feeling joy in another part of his being), or complex-compound emotions, (e.g., feeling a single feeling of joy mixed with sorrow).  However, couldn&#039;t living a more abundant life also mean simply experiencing a magnification of distinct human emotions?  It makes more sense to me that way.  Also, it makes me feel like I somehow relate to Heavenly Father when I think that his emotions are similar to mine, and not somehow beyond my human capacity to feel.  The scriptures seem to portray Heavenly Father as a being with typical human emotions.  Also, Jesus, in his perfect resurrected form, seems to experience typical human emotions during his visit to the Nephites (e.g., weeping with joy, joy being full, groaning in sorrow, etc.). 

Although, I admit, I wonâ€™t be disappointed if it turns out that emotions are much more complex when we have resurrected and/or celestial bodies.  That could make the Millennium or the Celestial Kingdom a very different experience than what I am currently envisioning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9 &#8211; I agree that Heavenly Father has a more abundant life.  I think you are saying that a more abundant life equates to feeling emotions that are beyond typical human emotions, such as split emotions (e.g., feeling sorrow in one part of his being while simultaneously feeling joy in another part of his being), or complex-compound emotions, (e.g., feeling a single feeling of joy mixed with sorrow).  However, couldn&#8217;t living a more abundant life also mean simply experiencing a magnification of distinct human emotions?  It makes more sense to me that way.  Also, it makes me feel like I somehow relate to Heavenly Father when I think that his emotions are similar to mine, and not somehow beyond my human capacity to feel.  The scriptures seem to portray Heavenly Father as a being with typical human emotions.  Also, Jesus, in his perfect resurrected form, seems to experience typical human emotions during his visit to the Nephites (e.g., weeping with joy, joy being full, groaning in sorrow, etc.). </p>
<p>Although, I admit, I wonâ€™t be disappointed if it turns out that emotions are much more complex when we have resurrected and/or celestial bodies.  That could make the Millennium or the Celestial Kingdom a very different experience than what I am currently envisioning.</p>
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