Churches of Iron and Clay

November 19, 2007 | 7 comments

I’m probably the last man on the Bloggernacle to realize that the the great stone which smashes to bits the statue in Daniel is not necessarily just a universal government. The stone is the gospel Kingdom, which is both spiritual and temporal. So it makes as much sense to compare parts of the statue to various churches and dispensations as it does to compare them to empires.

Of course, Daniel says that the head of gold is the Persian empire, not Zoroaster or pre-Exilic Judaism. But lets overlook that.


7 Responses to Churches of Iron and Clay

  1. Ardis Parshall on November 19, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    That little chunk of crumbling clay over on the next-to-last toe — yeah, the one there on the left foot, at the knuckle — I think must be that Kansas family/church that sends protesters to veterans’ funerals.

    Or weren’t we supposed to get that personal?

  2. Adam Greenwood on November 19, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    The Westboro people are toe jam of clay, Ardis P.

  3. Struwelpeter on November 19, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    Most toe jam resembles clay. If you gathered enough toe jam, you could sculpt models of the Westboro people and smash them to bits. I’m not sure there would be anything Biblical about that, however.

  4. Ray on November 19, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    The spleen and appendix serve a purpose but are unnecessary – and when they rupture all kinds of bile spews into the body. I would like so badly to identify the spleen and appendix that are in the process of rupturing, but I probably should wait for a year to allow current events to run their course and see if I am right.

    Toe jam is one thing, but there is a church in this area that would qualify as toenail fungus. Let’s just say that Touchdown Jesus lives outside of Notre Dame; he has been transplanted to Ohio.

    Finally, the mega-churches might not be an actual body part, but they might classify as the mega-phones the cheerleaders use to pump up the emotions in pep rallies.

  5. roland on November 20, 2007 at 1:34 pm

    Adam asks a good question – but I think you guys are all missing the mark on this one by a long shot. Almost all political organizations and governments reflect the religious basis and values of the people.

    In many cases the government serves, protects and honors a state religion in some form. And all religions are quashed, penalized and suppressed. Democracy is unique in its ability to tolerate multiple religions.

    For example :
    - Kings and princes and emporers crowned by the pope, cardinal, bishop.
    - Dictatorships where the tyrant is equivalent to a demi-god.
    - Islamic theocracies
    - Egyptian pharoahs and their gods
    - Roman emporers and their gods
    - Greek city-states and their gods
    - Israel – both ancient and modern (the history of the inter-testament period is a fascinating read on the jews trying to resist the encroachment of hellenistic beliefs, practices and government.)

    The most noteworthy incident from history is Emporer Constantine changing the primary religious practices of the Roman Empire. Before his time, Christians were heavily persecuted (lions, crucifixitions and such).

    And then there is the great city state of Sodom and Gomorrah that was overthrown by God for its steep immoral practices. All scriptures warn of destruction of society whose government tolerates and protects extreme immorality, wickedness and persecution of the righteous and their beliefs. It makes me wonder how close the USA is to this mark.

  6. Ardis Parshall on November 20, 2007 at 2:27 pm

    roland, I think you’re on the track that Adam hoped to follow on this thread. I simply don’t know enough about ancient religions to propose an identification between the gold and silver and brass body parts and specific historical religious movements, the way scholars have proposed specific historical political governments to correspond with those parts.

    How would you match up the specific parts?

  7. Eric Boysen on November 21, 2007 at 10:24 am

    At their most fundemental level, are the religions of an age much separated from the nations themselves? A tenant of of our national life is that we, the people, have a right and a responsibility to institute, alter or abolish our government, and by extention so have all the people of all the nations of the earth throughout all history.

    If everyone in a nation suddenly converted to the worship of Re and his children, establishment of a new Pharaoh would ensue. And when the Pharaoh was toppled so would be Re.

    We in our modern world may think we have escaped this in the establishment of a secular society, but the ongoing Presidential contest is proof that there is still a link between the religion and politics and thereby between church and state.

    Daniel’s identification with the head of gold as the Persian empire, ignores the history that was already in progress before Persia was ever thought of in the minds of men. It worked for him because he was able to see the the subsequent degeneration of the nations. Identification of subsequent empires, however, has always been a matter of historical evaluation, usually by men who did not wear the prophetic mantle.

    The true age of gold was the time of Enoch, when the state of Zion was acheived by an entire city, the whole of the people being of one heart and one mind, united behind their prophet and their God. This was the first time since Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden when a whole society was fully reconciled to God, and it has never happened since. Any other acheivement in history pales behind this example. Every subsequent dispensation looks back to this time with longing. This is what we are dedicated to re-establish upon the earth from the fragments left after the stone breaks down the nations of idolatry represented by the figure with a head of gold and feet of clay.


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