Comments on: Mutual Questions http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/ Truth Will Prevail Thu, 24 May 2012 22:43:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jonathan Green http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240621 Jonathan Green Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:55:08 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240621 Alan, for a recent thread on the topic, and an unscientific poll that more or less corresponds to my impression of the prevalence of various opinions, see here: http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-monday-poll-6/ Alan, for a recent thread on the topic, and an unscientific poll that more or less corresponds to my impression of the prevalence of various opinions, see here: http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2007/10/your-monday-poll-6/

]]> By: Alan http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240611 Alan Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:48:12 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240611 My brother lives in Fruit Heights, Utah, and he told me that recently his 11-year-old son's Primary teaches taught their class that Christ would return in 2012 because of the end of the Mayan Calendar. I don't know if they suggested that the Mayans were the peoples of the Book of Mormon and that is why it's truth. In this same ward, a well respected individual "testified" that the baby blessed that day would be present at Christ's return. My reaction? These predictions are as old as the Church. I recall the excitement during the 1990s with the coming of the new millenium. I am relieved to read Jonathan's feeling that "millennialism is not all that important for most Mormons." I would have thought it was more prevelent. My brother lives in Fruit Heights, Utah, and he told me that recently his 11-year-old son’s Primary teaches taught their class that Christ would return in 2012 because of the end of the Mayan Calendar. I don’t know if they suggested that the Mayans were the peoples of the Book of Mormon and that is why it’s truth. In this same ward, a well respected individual “testified” that the baby blessed that day would be present at Christ’s return. My reaction? These predictions are as old as the Church. I recall the excitement during the 1990s with the coming of the new millenium. I am relieved to read Jonathan’s feeling that “millennialism is not all that important for most Mormons.” I would have thought it was more prevelent.

]]> By: Jonathan Green http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240609 Jonathan Green Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:19:12 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240609 Alan, my best guess is that millennialism is not all that important for most Mormons, but that it is very important for some. For most millennialism enthusiasts, anticipating the Second Coming during the next two decades would probably seem rushed, but I'm sure there are exceptions. Alan, my best guess is that millennialism is not all that important for most Mormons, but that it is very important for some. For most millennialism enthusiasts, anticipating the Second Coming during the next two decades would probably seem rushed, but I’m sure there are exceptions.

]]> By: Alan http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240602 Alan Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:13:27 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240602 The 1891 date fits perfectly with Dan Erickson's _"As a Thief in the Night": The Mormon Quest for Millennial Deliverance_ which traced Mormonism's millennial beliefs and argued that the Manifesto and other major changes in the church occurred when it became apparent that the end of the world was not near. How important is millennialism in the Church today? Would you agree that most Mormons believe that the Second Coming will occur within the next two decades? The 1891 date fits perfectly with Dan Erickson’s _”As a Thief in the Night”: The Mormon Quest for Millennial Deliverance_ which traced Mormonism’s millennial beliefs and argued that the Manifesto and other major changes in the church occurred when it became apparent that the end of the world was not near. How important is millennialism in the Church today? Would you agree that most Mormons believe that the Second Coming will occur within the next two decades?

]]> By: Ardis Parshall http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240592 Ardis Parshall Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:01:09 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240592 This thread seems to have segued into a discussion of the dark vs. middle ages, so I want to comment that the term "dark ages" as used by, say, Paul Pixton and Davis Bitton (and me -- I like their company) carries no sense of judgment about men's spiritual condition or intellectual achievement or the difficulties of physical survival. "Dark ages" refers to a relatively brief period that is "dark" <em>to us</em> because of our lack of knowledge of those years. Just as "middle ages" reflects our perspective on the millenium or so falling between the classical and modern ages, the "dark ages" are entirely about us and our (limited and ignorant) point of view. "Dark ages" is not synonymous with "middle ages." This thread seems to have segued into a discussion of the dark vs. middle ages, so I want to comment that the term “dark ages” as used by, say, Paul Pixton and Davis Bitton (and me — I like their company) carries no sense of judgment about men’s spiritual condition or intellectual achievement or the difficulties of physical survival. “Dark ages” refers to a relatively brief period that is “dark” to us because of our lack of knowledge of those years. Just as “middle ages” reflects our perspective on the millenium or so falling between the classical and modern ages, the “dark ages” are entirely about us and our (limited and ignorant) point of view.

“Dark ages” is not synonymous with “middle ages.”

]]> By: mr16ga http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240589 mr16ga Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:47:49 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240589 I have done a lot of study on the \"Dark Ages\" and Medieval times. Life was truly dark if you were a normal working person. If you were a royal life was not too bad. The one thing I admire in the faith the average person had during time in question. There was a big difference between England and France at the time with England being much better off. The was a huge shift in quality of life, towards the negative, when William invaded England in 1066. Wave after wave of Plague killing off 30% to 50% of people and live stock was a real bright spot as well. read your history and you will know what it was indeed a \"Dark Age\" and the Vikings to add a little spice to everyday life. If you did not know the Plague kill off just about everything except plants, it even killed the fleas that carried it. It took until the 1700\'s for the population to recover from the Plague. On the bright side it did cause the re-awakening of Europe as there was half the number of people and all the money and it started the end of power of royalty. If I had to pick a year to live in I would pick 1000 AD in England. Joe I have done a lot of study on the \”Dark Ages\” and Medieval times. Life was truly dark if you were a normal working person. If you were a royal life was not too bad. The one thing I admire in the faith the average person had during time in question. There was a big difference between England and France at the time with England being much better off. The was a huge shift in quality of life, towards the negative, when William invaded England in 1066. Wave after wave of Plague killing off 30% to 50% of people and live stock was a real bright spot as well. read your history and you will know what it was indeed a \”Dark Age\” and the Vikings to add a little spice to everyday life.
If you did not know the Plague kill off just about everything except plants, it even killed the fleas that carried it. It took until the 1700\’s for the population to recover from the Plague. On the bright side it did cause the re-awakening of Europe as there was half the number of people and all the money and it started the end of power of royalty.
If I had to pick a year to live in I would pick 1000 AD in England.
Joe

]]> By: jimbob http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240581 jimbob Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:34:30 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240581 "...doing his best to disabuse us of the traditional LDS view of the 'dark ages.'" This isn't a problem Mormons have in greater numbers than the rest of the population, in my experience. Lots and lots of people outside the church call that period the dark ages, and most have no idea why. “…doing his best to disabuse us of the traditional LDS view of the ‘dark ages.’”

This isn’t a problem Mormons have in greater numbers than the rest of the population, in my experience. Lots and lots of people outside the church call that period the dark ages, and most have no idea why.

]]> By: queuno http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240547 queuno Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:29:19 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240547 (sidebar) Paul Pixton remains today one of the most influential people on my academic career. He practically threw a rough draft back at me that I had written on Islam with the words, "So? Who cares? What's the point?" Taught me a powerful lesson about analysis -- that while research data (and quotes and anecdotes, etc.) was interesting, it didn't count unless you could analyze and extrapolate some actual meaning... (sidebar)
Paul Pixton remains today one of the most influential people on my academic career. He practically threw a rough draft back at me that I had written on Islam with the words, “So? Who cares? What’s the point?” Taught me a powerful lesson about analysis — that while research data (and quotes and anecdotes, etc.) was interesting, it didn’t count unless you could analyze and extrapolate some actual meaning…

]]> By: meems http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240525 meems Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:15:21 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240525 These are great. I love how the personalities come through. My question is, I wonder what kind of questions the youth of today would pose to their leaders? These questions (in hindsight) seem so innocent. Even the asking of "what is the most beautiful country?" (Who today would ask that?) And like Kevin, I'm delighted in the authoritative answer as if it were fact, not opinion! These are great. I love how the personalities come through. My question is, I wonder what kind of questions the youth of today would pose to their leaders? These questions (in hindsight) seem so innocent. Even the asking of “what is the most beautiful country?” (Who today would ask that?) And like Kevin, I’m delighted in the authoritative answer as if it were fact, not opinion!

]]> By: Non-Arab Arab http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/10/mutual-questions/#comment-240519 Non-Arab Arab Mon, 29 Oct 2007 05:04:28 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4202#comment-240519 Besides for the anti-Catholic sentiment inherent in the dark ages question, worth pointing out that the times were anything but dark on the south side of the Med (and in al-Andalus on the north) in those years. "Golden Age" would be more appropriate, to say nothing of the role our Muslim Brothers and Sisters of that age played (fed to us by Venetians, Castillians and others) in bringing us the knowledge necessary to spark the Renaissance, Reformation, and eventually Restoration. As westerners and as Mormons, we owe a debt of gratitude to Arabs like Avicenna, Saladin, Averroes, Maimonides (Jewish yes, but Arab too, however incongruous that may seem in the age of Zionism) and many others no less than Martin Luther. Though I don't think any of them predicted 1891 for the year of the destruction of the gentile nations. Besides for the anti-Catholic sentiment inherent in the dark ages question, worth pointing out that the times were anything but dark on the south side of the Med (and in al-Andalus on the north) in those years. “Golden Age” would be more appropriate, to say nothing of the role our Muslim Brothers and Sisters of that age played (fed to us by Venetians, Castillians and others) in bringing us the knowledge necessary to spark the Renaissance, Reformation, and eventually Restoration. As westerners and as Mormons, we owe a debt of gratitude to Arabs like Avicenna, Saladin, Averroes, Maimonides (Jewish yes, but Arab too, however incongruous that may seem in the age of Zionism) and many others no less than Martin Luther. Though I don’t think any of them predicted 1891 for the year of the destruction of the gentile nations.

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