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	<title>Comments on: Elder Busche on Women and Priesthood</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: bbell</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-229307</link>
		<dc:creator>bbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-229307</guid>
		<description>Kristine,

Its been my experience that the TR holders seem much more likely to accept the way things are in regards to this and other issues.  They tend to toe the party line so to speak.    In my adult life as an active engaged LDS male.  (seminary teacher, Bishopric, EQP etc) I have rarely outside the bloggernaccle in my memory met anybody that would admit to desiring female ordination.  Those that feel this way in favor of female ordination keep it quiet.  The blogger M or Meg who I know fairly well personally might be an exception but even with her I am not sure what she thinks.

I think based on this that we run in widely divergent LDS circles.  I have never lived in the Corridor by the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristine,</p>
<p>Its been my experience that the TR holders seem much more likely to accept the way things are in regards to this and other issues.  They tend to toe the party line so to speak.    In my adult life as an active engaged LDS male.  (seminary teacher, Bishopric, EQP etc) I have rarely outside the bloggernaccle in my memory met anybody that would admit to desiring female ordination.  Those that feel this way in favor of female ordination keep it quiet.  The blogger M or Meg who I know fairly well personally might be an exception but even with her I am not sure what she thinks.</p>
<p>I think based on this that we run in widely divergent LDS circles.  I have never lived in the Corridor by the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie M. Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-229303</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie M. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-229303</guid>
		<description>Vickie--

I removed the email address from your comment because you may be the victim of spam (or worse) if your email is easily available on the Internet.

You should be able to print this out by going under &quot;file&quot; on your browser and then &quot;print.&quot;  

If you or your daughter has questions, you can email them to me at julie AT timesandseasons DOT org, but replace the word AT with the at symbol (@) and the word DOT with a period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vickie&#8211;</p>
<p>I removed the email address from your comment because you may be the victim of spam (or worse) if your email is easily available on the Internet.</p>
<p>You should be able to print this out by going under &#8220;file&#8221; on your browser and then &#8220;print.&#8221;  </p>
<p>If you or your daughter has questions, you can email them to me at julie AT timesandseasons DOT org, but replace the word AT with the at symbol (@) and the word DOT with a period.</p>
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		<title>By: Vickie</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-229297</link>
		<dc:creator>Vickie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-229297</guid>
		<description>I am not sure what website..been looking things up for hours
trying to help my daughter with some questions she has 
about the Church... I need help...I, too, am confused.

Is there a way to print this out??  On the Priesthood/Women ..this would be most 
beneficial to be sent to my daughter [edited]
Thank you,
Vickie Duncan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure what website..been looking things up for hours<br />
trying to help my daughter with some questions she has<br />
about the Church&#8230; I need help&#8230;I, too, am confused.</p>
<p>Is there a way to print this out??  On the Priesthood/Women ..this would be most<br />
beneficial to be sent to my daughter [edited]<br />
Thank you,<br />
Vickie Duncan</p>
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		<title>By: Julie M. Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-229073</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie M. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 02:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-229073</guid>
		<description>&quot;In her post, Julie (whether intentionally or not, I donâ€™t know) left out a significant section of this quote &quot;

Well . . . it is hard to unintentionally use ellipses.  I chose to use them because I felt most of our readers could deduce what he would have said in that section and I didn&#039;t want to quote too lengthy of a chunk of material because I frankly have no idea how stringently copyright law is applied to blogs--but I do have some sense of (most) bloggers&#039; willingness to wade through lengthy quotations.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In her post, Julie (whether intentionally or not, I donâ€™t know) left out a significant section of this quote &#8221;</p>
<p>Well . . . it is hard to unintentionally use ellipses.  I chose to use them because I felt most of our readers could deduce what he would have said in that section and I didn&#8217;t want to quote too lengthy of a chunk of material because I frankly have no idea how stringently copyright law is applied to blogs&#8211;but I do have some sense of (most) bloggers&#8217; willingness to wade through lengthy quotations.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: shannon</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-228706</link>
		<dc:creator>shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-228706</guid>
		<description>I realize this comment is late. . . Maybe it will still be of some use.  In her post, Julie (whether intentionally or not, I don&#039;t know) left out a significant section of this quote from the book &quot;Yearning for the Living God&quot; - which I recommend everyone read in its entirety.  Anyway, in place of those . . . we read:
&quot;Heavenly Father has given the female the role of brining new life to this world.  She does so in a physical dimension - by nurturing, tutoring, training, and teaching -  and in the wearing of the very eternal virtues of chastity, loyalty,and wholesomeness, which are essential for the very existence of humankind.  Our Heavenly Fahter has given the male the role of providing, protecting, and admiring.  Male and female are in many ways mysteriously different and, because of that, there is a natural desire to love one another in harmony with the divine laws as they have been reestablished by the restoration of the gospel.&quot;

Also, at the end of the quote, their should read the following:
&quot;A society that fails to accept the eternal concept of this godly design must pay an unbearable price of confusion of the individua, which can, potentially, lead to chaos, destruction, and the unhappiness of the soul.&quot;

Finally, it&#039;s important to note the context in which this question and answer were given.  Briefly, he and his wife were teaching a woman serving in the American military who had come for her own endowments about the temple (sorry about the misplaced modifiers).  He sensed that she and the sisters who were with her (who were all officers in the military) had a &quot;somewhat unsettled spirit.&quot;  This is whent he priesthood leader who was accompanying them asked the question.  Elder Busche writes that he was at first shocked and &quot;felt a strong desire to give a stern response and even question his worthiness to be in the temple.&quot; !!!!  It was after he calmed his thoughts and sought guidance from the Spirit, that the words of this answer came to him, which, he describes as &quot;somewhat new to me.&quot;    Then after he gave his answer, he writes that a warm, comforting spirit came over everyone in the room.  &quot;Their hearts became enlightened and their attitudes became mild and receptive.  As I continued my remarks, I observed that they had tears in their eyes.  The priesthood leader was so embarrassed that he could not find enough words of regret and apology.  Deeply touched and lightened by inner understanding, they were ready to participate in the additional experiences of their temple visit.&quot;

Okay, that should help clear up what Elder Busche meant, at least a little.  I just want to point out what a difference the promptings and feelings that the presence of the Spirit can make in such instances.  Too often, I think, we get caught up in the mere words of the discussions in this blog.  There is another dimension of understanding that only the Spirit can bring.  Unfortunately, I&#039;m not sure if or how the Spirit works through the mysterious depths of the World Wide Web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize this comment is late. . . Maybe it will still be of some use.  In her post, Julie (whether intentionally or not, I don&#8217;t know) left out a significant section of this quote from the book &#8220;Yearning for the Living God&#8221; &#8211; which I recommend everyone read in its entirety.  Anyway, in place of those . . . we read:<br />
&#8220;Heavenly Father has given the female the role of brining new life to this world.  She does so in a physical dimension &#8211; by nurturing, tutoring, training, and teaching &#8211;  and in the wearing of the very eternal virtues of chastity, loyalty,and wholesomeness, which are essential for the very existence of humankind.  Our Heavenly Fahter has given the male the role of providing, protecting, and admiring.  Male and female are in many ways mysteriously different and, because of that, there is a natural desire to love one another in harmony with the divine laws as they have been reestablished by the restoration of the gospel.&#8221;</p>
<p>Also, at the end of the quote, their should read the following:<br />
&#8220;A society that fails to accept the eternal concept of this godly design must pay an unbearable price of confusion of the individua, which can, potentially, lead to chaos, destruction, and the unhappiness of the soul.&#8221;</p>
<p>Finally, it&#8217;s important to note the context in which this question and answer were given.  Briefly, he and his wife were teaching a woman serving in the American military who had come for her own endowments about the temple (sorry about the misplaced modifiers).  He sensed that she and the sisters who were with her (who were all officers in the military) had a &#8220;somewhat unsettled spirit.&#8221;  This is whent he priesthood leader who was accompanying them asked the question.  Elder Busche writes that he was at first shocked and &#8220;felt a strong desire to give a stern response and even question his worthiness to be in the temple.&#8221; !!!!  It was after he calmed his thoughts and sought guidance from the Spirit, that the words of this answer came to him, which, he describes as &#8220;somewhat new to me.&#8221;    Then after he gave his answer, he writes that a warm, comforting spirit came over everyone in the room.  &#8220;Their hearts became enlightened and their attitudes became mild and receptive.  As I continued my remarks, I observed that they had tears in their eyes.  The priesthood leader was so embarrassed that he could not find enough words of regret and apology.  Deeply touched and lightened by inner understanding, they were ready to participate in the additional experiences of their temple visit.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay, that should help clear up what Elder Busche meant, at least a little.  I just want to point out what a difference the promptings and feelings that the presence of the Spirit can make in such instances.  Too often, I think, we get caught up in the mere words of the discussions in this blog.  There is another dimension of understanding that only the Spirit can bring.  Unfortunately, I&#8217;m not sure if or how the Spirit works through the mysterious depths of the World Wide Web.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristine</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-228614</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-228614</guid>
		<description>queno, bbell, 

Granting that holding a temple recommend is a reasonable proxy for faithfulness, why do you assume, then, that TR holders are less likely than non-TR holders to be in favor of women&#039;s ordination?  Among those I know who favor or hope for women&#039;s eventual ordination, there are plenty of current recommend holders.  I think, actually that the belief is fairly evenly distributed between TR holders and non-TR holders in my acquaintance.  I suspect that I probably talk to more people than you do about this subject, so I&#039;d be interested to hear whether you have any empirical support for your position (anecdotal though it will necessarily be).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>queno, bbell, </p>
<p>Granting that holding a temple recommend is a reasonable proxy for faithfulness, why do you assume, then, that TR holders are less likely than non-TR holders to be in favor of women&#8217;s ordination?  Among those I know who favor or hope for women&#8217;s eventual ordination, there are plenty of current recommend holders.  I think, actually that the belief is fairly evenly distributed between TR holders and non-TR holders in my acquaintance.  I suspect that I probably talk to more people than you do about this subject, so I&#8217;d be interested to hear whether you have any empirical support for your position (anecdotal though it will necessarily be).</p>
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		<title>By: 10cowife</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-228612</link>
		<dc:creator>10cowife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-228612</guid>
		<description>Ummm...hello...let the men have the priesthood.  If they were to give it to women in order to heal the sick, etc., we would end up doing all of the work in the kingdom (any wife has learned this lesson - once you start \&quot;doing\&quot; things for your husband pretty quickly it ends up your domain).  We do our share of spiritual healing, anyway, as far as any man or woman can do -- the priesthood power isn\&#039;t ours, anyway, it\&#039;s given to us to use (yes, men AND women) by Jesus Christ.  Frankly, I\&#039;m happy with what I have been given and truly would not ask for more.  Being a mother is absolutely enough for me and some days too much at that!!!  I say GO WOMEN, EMPOWER WOMEN with understanding, knowledge and charity and try to be better supporters of our dear husbands and brethren because usually we\&#039;re just waiting for them to catch up, anyway.   All spoken in good fun (taken with a grain of salt and not too seriously at that!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm&#8230;hello&#8230;let the men have the priesthood.  If they were to give it to women in order to heal the sick, etc., we would end up doing all of the work in the kingdom (any wife has learned this lesson &#8211; once you start \&#8221;doing\&#8221; things for your husband pretty quickly it ends up your domain).  We do our share of spiritual healing, anyway, as far as any man or woman can do &#8212; the priesthood power isn\&#8217;t ours, anyway, it\&#8217;s given to us to use (yes, men AND women) by Jesus Christ.  Frankly, I\&#8217;m happy with what I have been given and truly would not ask for more.  Being a mother is absolutely enough for me and some days too much at that!!!  I say GO WOMEN, EMPOWER WOMEN with understanding, knowledge and charity and try to be better supporters of our dear husbands and brethren because usually we\&#8217;re just waiting for them to catch up, anyway.   All spoken in good fun (taken with a grain of salt and not too seriously at that!).</p>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-228573</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-228573</guid>
		<description>This post is probably dead ... but to follow-up on bbell&#039;s last comment about &quot;TR holders&quot; and &quot;faithful members&quot;, there are a LOT of Church leaders who place more stock in the opinions of TR holders than non-TR holders.  As in, the truly faithful members are those who hold a TR.  Obviously, we could all list valid exceptions, but many leaders don&#039;t.  And while it may not be preferred, it at least serves to weed out certain viewpoints from the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is probably dead &#8230; but to follow-up on bbell&#8217;s last comment about &#8220;TR holders&#8221; and &#8220;faithful members&#8221;, there are a LOT of Church leaders who place more stock in the opinions of TR holders than non-TR holders.  As in, the truly faithful members are those who hold a TR.  Obviously, we could all list valid exceptions, but many leaders don&#8217;t.  And while it may not be preferred, it at least serves to weed out certain viewpoints from the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcie</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-228553</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 04:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-228553</guid>
		<description>I have been reading all the comments on this site with interest.  My husband and I served a Senior Mission a couple of years ago.  I am a nurse, and he is a retired real estate broker.  We were on a medical/proselyting mission.  Our call from the GA&#039;s stated he was the Medical Specialist, and I was the Medical Care Giver.  We had a good laugh about this at the time.  We decided it had something to do with Patriarchial Order........But, in serving on that mission in a remote area of the thirld world, our eyes were opened.  Yes, I gave Medical Care to the missionaries, and he gave Priesthood Blessings.  We were interdependent upon each other.  Many times I mouthed in my mind the words of his blessings to sick missionaries as he spoke.  We both know we saw some miraculous healings because of our unified intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been reading all the comments on this site with interest.  My husband and I served a Senior Mission a couple of years ago.  I am a nurse, and he is a retired real estate broker.  We were on a medical/proselyting mission.  Our call from the GA&#8217;s stated he was the Medical Specialist, and I was the Medical Care Giver.  We had a good laugh about this at the time.  We decided it had something to do with Patriarchial Order&#8230;&#8230;..But, in serving on that mission in a remote area of the thirld world, our eyes were opened.  Yes, I gave Medical Care to the missionaries, and he gave Priesthood Blessings.  We were interdependent upon each other.  Many times I mouthed in my mind the words of his blessings to sick missionaries as he spoke.  We both know we saw some miraculous healings because of our unified intentions.</p>
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		<title>By: bbell</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/07/elder-busche-on-women-and-priesthood/#comment-228406</link>
		<dc:creator>bbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3469#comment-228406</guid>
		<description>I guess I just use TR holder in the place of &quot;faithful member&quot;.  Not much more thought put into it then that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I just use TR holder in the place of &#8220;faithful member&#8221;.  Not much more thought put into it then that.</p>
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