Thanks again.

I reference your posting below so there is no need to scroll up and down . . . catherine baker cbaker50@verizon.net

“We did not, fortunately, demand that we be personally held as martyrs because of their sufferings… I am pleased to be able to say, however, that our frustration did not result in a blanket condemnation of Missourian humility and humanity, or a demand to extract a very specifically-worded apology from living Missourians who had had no hand in the crimes against our ancestors. . . . We were disarmed by Governor Kit Bond’s 1976 rescission of the Extermination Order against us. We recognized his gesture for what it was, an acknowledgment of past wrongs and a reaffirmation of what had in reality already become a longstanding history of friendship and cooperation between Mormon and Missourian. What more could we have asked? that Gov. Bond prove his strong leadership by getting on his knees and tearfully begging personal forgiveness from the descendants of the Mormon victims? that the townsites of Haun’s Mill, Independence, Far West, Richmond, Liberty, and other scenes of anti-Mormon violence be surrendered as public shrines? No – we recognized the good will gesture for what it was, did not demand that it be more, and have since gone about our lives without the gnawing resentment that a refusal to accept that apology would have done to our emotional wellbeing.”

I disagree with you about a disussion of the Mormons’ collective problems re: MMM. In fact, I think it’s a vital topic.

But you’re correct. I did essentially say I would shut up.

Jaynee

Why so cryptic? If you disagree with Tonya, why not just say so? If her references are biased or innacurate, I’d like to know.

I will never understand Mormons’ collective insistence that their ancetor’s experienced atrocities negate the atrocities committed at MMM. If you don’t want an apology for yours, fine. This does not mean they don’t deserve one for theirs.

I found your letter unecessarily cruel with a touch of martyrdom thrown in. Is that really what you want to convey?

If so, at least be honesty about it and tell it like it is.

Jaynee

I’ve been to Mountain Meadows. I sobbed as I read the names of those murdered. My knees buckled as I scanned the meadows, picturing in my mind’s eye the terror, the blood, the horror. My heart raged as I searched the memorial for signs of an apology and found none.

Your post breaks my heart, and you have my deep-felt apology for your family’s pain.

Jaynee

Thank you so much for your corrections to my typos and sorry for the confusion.

Additionally thank you for providing Brooks’ continuing footnote. With all this new information I would have to say I think Bagley’s description of the scene is not proven to be fact. I wish there were a way to know what really happened.

Thanks again.

Jaynee

I think that there was an earlier typescript than the one that our family has–I don’t know for certain–but I’m glad you find it useful.

I too have found remarkable insights in his comments–I read his comments about the disciplinary action during the Utah War this morning as I searched for comments on MMM, and was moved again by his humanity.

I am a descendent of early Mormon pioneers and of at least one man who may or may not have been there among the perpetrators (I do not know for sure). And I am an active and believing member of the Church today.

I completely concur with Bored in Vernal’s sentiments. The perpetrators’ actions were inexcusable and they were completely inconsistent with what I believe to be Mormonism’s core values. But they were our people, there were a significant number of them, and they were acting under the direction of leaders to whom our Church had delegated leadership responsibility. Moreover, as I have stated above, the central Church bears responsibity for its own actions and nonactions thereafter.

I, too, appreciated Elder Oaks nondefensive attempt at apology. When it comes to an apology for such a heinous act, I think it is more important to express it, and express it clearly and nondefensively, than it is to be concerned that we “calibrate” the apology precisely. Borrowing quasi-legal terminology, in such heinous cases, I think it is better to be over-inclusive, if anything, than under-inclusive.

As a member of the Church and a descendent of a possible perpetrator, I am sorry for the massacre; I am sorry for the coverup; I am sorry for any role that correct or incorrect understanding or implementation of Church doctrine and procedures contributed to the massacre and coverup; I am sorry for whatever role leaders at any level, high or low, played in the massacre and coverup; and I am sorry for the apparent lack of contrition, and for the defensiveness, insensitivity and even denial, evidenced by so many Mormons over the years.

I join in Elder Oaks’ sincere prayer for healing and mending for those, who to this day, experience hurt because of the actions of those days, and prayer for forgiveness, if possible, of those involved (including possibly one of my ancestors). I extend the same prayer and wish for all involved, and their descendents, on both sides of Haun’s Mill, Carthage, Jackson County, and other places of early violence perpetrated by one side or the other.