Comments on: “The Mormons” on PBS http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:03:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Utopia http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223678 Utopia Wed, 09 May 2007 21:17:16 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223678 Thanks for the comments. It's been a hearty and healthy discussion on Ranger Bart's statement. Nothing builds character like a good bashing in a blog, eh? Thanks for the comments. It’s been a hearty and healthy discussion on Ranger Bart’s statement. Nothing builds character like a good bashing in a blog, eh?

]]> By: Steve http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223432 Steve Mon, 07 May 2007 05:09:07 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223432 I didn't get to see any of it. What was the John Taylor quote refered to towards the top of this tread? I didn’t get to see any of it. What was the John Taylor quote refered to towards the top of this tread?

]]> By: David http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223309 David Fri, 04 May 2007 22:54:09 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223309 Saying it's "Nice" with sarcasm doesn't exactly amount to a counter-argument, now does it? Saying it’s “Nice” with sarcasm doesn’t exactly amount to a counter-argument, now does it?

]]> By: Adam Greenwood http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223299 Adam Greenwood Fri, 04 May 2007 19:42:12 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223299 <i>This was an interesting piece to put into the film but I think it amounts to an argument for skepticism because it is a clear example of the abuse of faith. Getting a nice feeling after praying is not a license to risk your life. This is how suicide bombers are born and how kids get to grow up with no mother.</i> It would be "judgmental" for anyone to question any Mormon couple's decision not to have kids. We can't question their revelation, etc. But if a Mormon couple feel inspired by God to have risks to have children, they're fanatics who are risk to become suicide bombers and who are clearly abusing the faith. Nice. This was an interesting piece to put into the film but I think it amounts to an argument for skepticism because it is a clear example of the abuse of faith. Getting a nice feeling after praying is not a license to risk your life. This is how suicide bombers are born and how kids get to grow up with no mother.

It would be “judgmental” for anyone to question any Mormon couple’s decision not to have kids. We can’t question their revelation, etc.

But if a Mormon couple feel inspired by God to have risks to have children, they’re fanatics who are risk to become suicide bombers and who are clearly abusing the faith.

Nice.

]]> By: Western Dave http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223277 Western Dave Fri, 04 May 2007 14:44:12 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223277 Utopia, Oral historians even have a name for the processes Ardis described. One the one hand there is a horizontal shift (like on a timeline)- moving an event to a different time to tell a better story, often with the teller at the center of the action. This is different from a vertical shift which moves the meaning of the event to better fit the narrative of the teller. See, "The Death of Luigi Trastulli and Other Stories" by Allessandro Portelli. In this case Ranger Bart has a clear vertical shift going on, by changing the actor he severely changes the meaning of the story (which makes a clear distinction between antiquarian and historical conciousness) into one that says, "Mormons cannot be trusted to write history, thier own or anybody else's." The guy is a storyteller and should be regarded as such. Utopia,
Oral historians even have a name for the processes Ardis described. One the one hand there is a horizontal shift (like on a timeline)- moving an event to a different time to tell a better story, often with the teller at the center of the action. This is different from a vertical shift which moves the meaning of the event to better fit the narrative of the teller. See, “The Death of Luigi Trastulli and Other Stories” by Allessandro Portelli. In this case Ranger Bart has a clear vertical shift going on, by changing the actor he severely changes the meaning of the story (which makes a clear distinction between antiquarian and historical conciousness) into one that says, “Mormons cannot be trusted to write history, thier own or anybody else’s.” The guy is a storyteller and should be regarded as such.

]]> By: Jayneedoe http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223266 Jayneedoe Fri, 04 May 2007 04:08:15 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223266 Utopia, I’m coming out of lurk mode to explain that if you knew ANYTHING about Juanita Brooks you would understand what a tragedy it is that this Ranger Bart is claiming she destroyed historical documents. NOTHING could be further from the truth. Juanita absolutely despised any whitewashing of history, and especially condemned destruction of historical documents. Ardis is correct. The person who did destroy documents is Kate Carter, the then president of the Daughters of the Utah Pioneers. Carter was involved in a project publishing pioneer diaries, and Juanita “listened with mounting disgust as on a Sunday evening Carter told a BYU faculty group that she insisted upon purging documents of offensive passages before permitting their publication. For Juanita, such bowdlerizing of historical sources was as alien to the authentic Utah as a modernistic art show or a fourth-rate western. ‘”When [Carter] talked of ‘editing’ journals, one of the audience . . . asked specifically what it was that she called ‘editing.’ She explained that she omitted material that seemed not important or that seemed repetitious, and then said ‘I never allow anything into print that I think will be injurious to my church, or that will in any way reflect discredit upon our pioneers, I hope if I ever do, I shall lose my position and my power to do.’” This is from Levi Peterson’s “Juanita Brooks, Mormon Woman Historian” Juanita is a hero of mine, and someone needs to set “Range Bart” straight, as he is telling an egregious untruth. “Mountain Meadows Massacre” is a testament to her commitment to telling the truth, no matter the cost. Destroying documents offended her to the core. This really is no little thing, as Juanita Brooks is Utah’s most courageous historian. Jaynee Utopia,

I’m coming out of lurk mode to explain that if you knew ANYTHING about Juanita Brooks you would understand what a tragedy it is that this Ranger Bart is claiming she destroyed historical documents. NOTHING could be further from the truth. Juanita absolutely despised any whitewashing of history, and especially condemned destruction of historical documents.

Ardis is correct. The person who did destroy documents is Kate Carter, the then president of the Daughters of the Utah Pioneers. Carter was involved in a project publishing pioneer diaries, and Juanita “listened with mounting disgust as on a Sunday evening Carter told a BYU faculty group that she insisted upon purging documents of offensive passages before permitting their publication. For Juanita, such bowdlerizing of historical sources was as alien to the authentic Utah as a modernistic art show or a fourth-rate western. ‘”When [Carter] talked of ‘editing’ journals, one of the audience . . . asked specifically what it was that she called ‘editing.’ She explained that she omitted material that seemed not important or that seemed repetitious, and then said ‘I never allow anything into print that I think will be injurious to my church, or that will in any way reflect discredit upon our pioneers, I hope if I ever do, I shall lose my position and my power to do.’”

This is from Levi Peterson’s “Juanita Brooks, Mormon Woman Historian”

Juanita is a hero of mine, and someone needs to set “Range Bart” straight, as he is telling an egregious untruth. “Mountain Meadows Massacre” is a testament to her commitment to telling the truth, no matter the cost. Destroying documents offended her to the core.

This really is no little thing, as Juanita Brooks is Utah’s most courageous historian.

Jaynee

]]> By: Ardis Parshall http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223263 Ardis Parshall Fri, 04 May 2007 02:51:45 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223263 Aw, Keith, just when I thought the trolls had gone back under their bridges! Better hurry, it's getting dark. Aw, Keith, just when I thought the trolls had gone back under their bridges! Better hurry, it’s getting dark.

]]> By: Keith Edward http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223261 Keith Edward Fri, 04 May 2007 02:34:10 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223261 How can the founder of the mormon faith claim that god told him to lead people into plural marriages, and then the modern day followers try claim they are being stereotyped by people bring up the facts of the past?! The reason plural marriage keeps coming up in modern day mormon issues is because it further supports the reality that Joseph Smith lied, and his followers are deceived. \"...active Mormons can and do practice Mormonism for a lifetime without such things playing any role in their religious lives. Will the apparently heavy emphasis on these topics shatter stereotypes, or reinforce them?\" How can the founder of the mormon faith claim that god told him to lead people into plural marriages, and then the modern day followers try claim they are being stereotyped by people bring up the facts of the past?! The reason plural marriage keeps coming up in modern day mormon issues is because it further supports the reality that Joseph Smith lied, and his followers are deceived.

\”…active Mormons can and do practice Mormonism for a lifetime without such things playing any role in their religious lives. Will the apparently heavy emphasis on these topics shatter stereotypes, or reinforce them?\”

]]> By: It's Not Me http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223258 It's Not Me Fri, 04 May 2007 00:00:03 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223258 #215 "Getting a nice feeling after praying is not a license to risk your life." This is a prime illustration of why we don't "cast our pearls before swine." It's doubtful the man in the documentary gave a full description of his family's experience of prayerfully considering another child. But because he gave a description at all, others are given material with which to criticize and explain away his personal, spiritual experience. I'm sure there are many who post here regularly who've had a number of spiritual experiences as a result of prayer. I know I have. But you can bet I'm not going to share them here. #215 “Getting a nice feeling after praying is not a license to risk your life.”

This is a prime illustration of why we don’t “cast our pearls before swine.” It’s doubtful the man in the documentary gave a full description of his family’s experience of prayerfully considering another child. But because he gave a description at all, others are given material with which to criticize and explain away his personal, spiritual experience.

I’m sure there are many who post here regularly who’ve had a number of spiritual experiences as a result of prayer. I know I have. But you can bet I’m not going to share them here.

]]> By: Rob Briggs http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/the-mormons-on-pbs/#comment-223194 Rob Briggs Thu, 03 May 2007 04:51:12 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3836#comment-223194 Ardis, I replied twice to your mesage but keep getting an delivery error message. Que pasta? Ardis, I replied twice to your mesage but keep getting an delivery error message. Que pasta?

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