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	<title>Comments on: Protest Days</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: plovering2</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-224950</link>
		<dc:creator>plovering2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 14:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-224950</guid>
		<description>I can see there are edges I needed to smooth over.  This is my first toe-dip in participating online.  Could I get some hints on how to go back in and clean up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see there are edges I needed to smooth over.  This is my first toe-dip in participating online.  Could I get some hints on how to go back in and clean up?</p>
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		<title>By: plovering2</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-224949</link>
		<dc:creator>plovering2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 14:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-224949</guid>
		<description>I am coming to this discussion late but have been wrestling with the idea of protest and a moral life for several years now.  While I have in my far-away place from Provo loved the Cheney protest, I have wondered if I should not be out organizing protests against the challenges by this administration to our civil liberties, by what I see as emerging war crimes growing out of our fear of terrorism, and by the sending of young men and women to a war that was ill-conceived from its inception (and has always impressed me as a way to sustain our dependence on oil--maybe not consciously, but it is difficult for me to imagine the oilmen of this administration probing into their consciousness to see how their work has shaped their world view).  

My sense of the Progressives is that they did us a great disservice in distancing citizenry from the political process. Whenever I hear questions of voter apathy, images of turn-of-the century Progressive reformers come to mind.  And despite my historical knowledge of why so many people have pulled away from political activitism in their acceptance of our dependence on bureaucracy, I find myself feeling helpless and apathetic.  I am convinced that the letters I sent to my representatives against the war had little impact other than my impatience with the condescension inherent in the form letters I received back.

As Zygmunt Bauman notes in his book on the Holocaust, modernity invites us to ignore the distant ethical decisions made by bureaucrats even as we become complicit in their decisions by paying our taxes or even through our silence.  So, as I read the news, I wonder if when I die and am in the midst of reviewing my sins, will the ones that are most galling be those where I did not speak up soon enough to stop things that were going on far away?

I am not sure.  I wrestle with Wendell Berry\&#039;s notion that protest is not to be about whether the protest is successful but about our own integrity.  While Berry is not into \&quot;movements\&quot; nor into collective action, I am struck that if enough people spoke up out of integrity it could puncture some of the alienation many of us feel regarding politics.

I confess to putting my reform energies into local choices, but even that feels at time hopeless. For example, I live in Hawaii where public education is dismal.  At first, I thought I would get in and see what I could do to help shape up the DOE.  However, it did not take long to see that our poor education is part and parcel of the colonial legacy of Hawaii.  We have an extremely high proportion of our children going to private schools.  Many elite and middle class folk dealing with and even creating our educational challenges by not sending their children to public schools. As you can imagine, little effort is spent on making our educational system better since it is those who support the public schools who have the time and resources to get in and make changes. But even the class boycott of public schools is not enough to explain what is going on.  It did not take long to figure out that undereducation works with the underemployment necessary to sustain the tourism which dominates our islands. The difficulties in education children in Hawaii is systemic.  

Since I believe a public education is necessary to a democracy, I do not feel comfortable sending my children to a private school.  So for me the question is how to help improve things. I have opted not to spend my time reform our incredibly disfunctional DOE.  Instead I am working  with local teachers to create an alternative space in our local elementary school that taps on the wealth of talents and cultures in our little community.  It is a great journey.....but, and this is why I write, I am not sure that it is enough.  Does my alienation from national and even state political processes mean that as the work of Bauman and Berry suggests I have abdicated my obligation to speak out against choices made at a bureaucratic level far removed from my life? It is on my mind. Is my focus on \&quot;local\&quot; too focused? And if the answer is yes, where do I put my energies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am coming to this discussion late but have been wrestling with the idea of protest and a moral life for several years now.  While I have in my far-away place from Provo loved the Cheney protest, I have wondered if I should not be out organizing protests against the challenges by this administration to our civil liberties, by what I see as emerging war crimes growing out of our fear of terrorism, and by the sending of young men and women to a war that was ill-conceived from its inception (and has always impressed me as a way to sustain our dependence on oil&#8211;maybe not consciously, but it is difficult for me to imagine the oilmen of this administration probing into their consciousness to see how their work has shaped their world view).  </p>
<p>My sense of the Progressives is that they did us a great disservice in distancing citizenry from the political process. Whenever I hear questions of voter apathy, images of turn-of-the century Progressive reformers come to mind.  And despite my historical knowledge of why so many people have pulled away from political activitism in their acceptance of our dependence on bureaucracy, I find myself feeling helpless and apathetic.  I am convinced that the letters I sent to my representatives against the war had little impact other than my impatience with the condescension inherent in the form letters I received back.</p>
<p>As Zygmunt Bauman notes in his book on the Holocaust, modernity invites us to ignore the distant ethical decisions made by bureaucrats even as we become complicit in their decisions by paying our taxes or even through our silence.  So, as I read the news, I wonder if when I die and am in the midst of reviewing my sins, will the ones that are most galling be those where I did not speak up soon enough to stop things that were going on far away?</p>
<p>I am not sure.  I wrestle with Wendell Berry\&#8217;s notion that protest is not to be about whether the protest is successful but about our own integrity.  While Berry is not into \&#8221;movements\&#8221; nor into collective action, I am struck that if enough people spoke up out of integrity it could puncture some of the alienation many of us feel regarding politics.</p>
<p>I confess to putting my reform energies into local choices, but even that feels at time hopeless. For example, I live in Hawaii where public education is dismal.  At first, I thought I would get in and see what I could do to help shape up the DOE.  However, it did not take long to see that our poor education is part and parcel of the colonial legacy of Hawaii.  We have an extremely high proportion of our children going to private schools.  Many elite and middle class folk dealing with and even creating our educational challenges by not sending their children to public schools. As you can imagine, little effort is spent on making our educational system better since it is those who support the public schools who have the time and resources to get in and make changes. But even the class boycott of public schools is not enough to explain what is going on.  It did not take long to figure out that undereducation works with the underemployment necessary to sustain the tourism which dominates our islands. The difficulties in education children in Hawaii is systemic.  </p>
<p>Since I believe a public education is necessary to a democracy, I do not feel comfortable sending my children to a private school.  So for me the question is how to help improve things. I have opted not to spend my time reform our incredibly disfunctional DOE.  Instead I am working  with local teachers to create an alternative space in our local elementary school that taps on the wealth of talents and cultures in our little community.  It is a great journey&#8230;..but, and this is why I write, I am not sure that it is enough.  Does my alienation from national and even state political processes mean that as the work of Bauman and Berry suggests I have abdicated my obligation to speak out against choices made at a bureaucratic level far removed from my life? It is on my mind. Is my focus on \&#8221;local\&#8221; too focused? And if the answer is yes, where do I put my energies?</p>
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		<title>By: Maryanne N.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-223488</link>
		<dc:creator>Maryanne N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 02:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-223488</guid>
		<description>I thought as much.  Hey, want to sing Javelin man at our next family reunion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought as much.  Hey, want to sing Javelin man at our next family reunion?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-223343</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 16:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-223343</guid>
		<description>Who do you think, Maryanne?  Your grandfather.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who do you think, Maryanne?  Your grandfather.</p>
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		<title>By: manaen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-223341</link>
		<dc:creator>manaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 15:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-223341</guid>
		<description>59. Re: &lt;i&gt;Can anyone recall any other BYU moment in the last 20 years that even comes close to what these kids have pulled off?

There was a pillow fight in the late 80s (I think) that really pissed off the administration. It was a very large pillow fight. It made the news. I was pretty amazed at how upset the staff they interviewed were. I would guess that those same people are pulling their hair out today.&lt;/i&gt;

My aunt and uncle fondly recall a weekend after Spring Break in the early &#039;60s, just before I arrived on campus.  This was during Pres. Wilkinson&#039;s authoritative administration.  

A big water-ballon fight broke out at Helaman Halls.  Campus Security was unable to quell it, so they called Provo Police came.  The cops quickly became targets of choice for the waterballoonists so the Fire Department was called.  They tried to use their hoses to disperse the crowd -- in a water fight! -- but the students soon learned to surround the police cars and disperse when the fire department&#039;s streams came, so the fire department ended up hosing the interiors of the cop cars.

Then Pres. Wilkinson came and announced that they&#039;d start taking names in 15 minutes.  Party over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>59. Re: <i>Can anyone recall any other BYU moment in the last 20 years that even comes close to what these kids have pulled off?</p>
<p>There was a pillow fight in the late 80s (I think) that really pissed off the administration. It was a very large pillow fight. It made the news. I was pretty amazed at how upset the staff they interviewed were. I would guess that those same people are pulling their hair out today.</i></p>
<p>My aunt and uncle fondly recall a weekend after Spring Break in the early &#8217;60s, just before I arrived on campus.  This was during Pres. Wilkinson&#8217;s authoritative administration.  </p>
<p>A big water-ballon fight broke out at Helaman Halls.  Campus Security was unable to quell it, so they called Provo Police came.  The cops quickly became targets of choice for the waterballoonists so the Fire Department was called.  They tried to use their hoses to disperse the crowd &#8212; in a water fight! &#8212; but the students soon learned to surround the police cars and disperse when the fire department&#8217;s streams came, so the fire department ended up hosing the interiors of the cop cars.</p>
<p>Then Pres. Wilkinson came and announced that they&#8217;d start taking names in 15 minutes.  Party over.</p>
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		<title>By: Maryanne N.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-223324</link>
		<dc:creator>Maryanne N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 02:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-223324</guid>
		<description>To whom did Elder Oaks lean over and say the comment about VP Agnew?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To whom did Elder Oaks lean over and say the comment about VP Agnew?</p>
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		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-222597</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-222597</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.myspace.com/giasen&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ann Coulter Rocks!!!&lt;/a&gt;

EspÃ¨ce de gros con lobotomisÃ© ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.myspace.com/giasen" rel="nofollow">Ann Coulter Rocks!!!</a></p>
<p>EspÃ¨ce de gros con lobotomisÃ© &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Giasen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-222580</link>
		<dc:creator>Giasen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-222580</guid>
		<description>Thanks for visiting!  I&#039;m impressed you know French!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for visiting!  I&#8217;m impressed you know French!</p>
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		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-222545</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-222545</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Protests these days are not much more than vainglorious crap-parades.&lt;/i&gt;

I noticed you also left this gem over at the KBLO Radio site

&lt;i&gt;I was thinking GORE = DOUCHE. Then four years later I was thinking KERRY = DOUCHE.&lt;/i&gt;

and I was thinking ... there&#039;s quite the scatological streak in those deep thoughts of yours, Glasen.

Although, this morning, I feel I should be the last person to give you a hard time about this.  

My first reading of #61 nearly bowled me over:  &quot;I still have fond memories of buggering B.J. ...&quot;

Good times, indeed, and good to see the kids today are also gonna have some great memories to take with them from BYU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Protests these days are not much more than vainglorious crap-parades.</i></p>
<p>I noticed you also left this gem over at the KBLO Radio site</p>
<p><i>I was thinking GORE = DOUCHE. Then four years later I was thinking KERRY = DOUCHE.</i></p>
<p>and I was thinking &#8230; there&#8217;s quite the scatological streak in those deep thoughts of yours, Glasen.</p>
<p>Although, this morning, I feel I should be the last person to give you a hard time about this.  </p>
<p>My first reading of #61 nearly bowled me over:  &#8220;I still have fond memories of buggering B.J. &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Good times, indeed, and good to see the kids today are also gonna have some great memories to take with them from BYU.</p>
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		<title>By: Giasen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/protest-days/#comment-222528</link>
		<dc:creator>Giasen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3830#comment-222528</guid>
		<description>Protests these days are not much more than vainglorious crap-parades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protests these days are not much more than vainglorious crap-parades.</p>
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