<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Kurt Vonnegut</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 19:37:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-222320</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-222320</guid>
		<description>Good luck on those finals :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good luck on those finals :-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cathryn</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-222319</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-222319</guid>
		<description>Very, very true.  Like I said, I&#039;m torn.  
Hmm.  I&#039;d like to think and write about this a lot more, but it&#039;s the middle of finals and my brain feels like pudding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very, very true.  Like I said, I&#8217;m torn.<br />
Hmm.  I&#8217;d like to think and write about this a lot more, but it&#8217;s the middle of finals and my brain feels like pudding.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-222169</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-222169</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;... what made being alive almost worthwhile for me, besides music, was alll the saints I had met, who could be anywhere. By saints I meant people who behaved decently in a strikingly indecent society.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s Vonnegut.  Sounds like a plea for decency, if not on the page, at least in the real world.  I wonder if he felt like he needed to go &quot;wash out [his] brain&quot; after Dresden?  You&#039;d expect that retrieving charcoal corpses might &quot;toughen [one&#039;s] skin&quot; beyond the capacity to feel, much less write &quot;one of the most beautiful pieces of literature [you&#039;ve] ever read&quot; ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230; what made being alive almost worthwhile for me, besides music, was alll the saints I had met, who could be anywhere. By saints I meant people who behaved decently in a strikingly indecent society.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s Vonnegut.  Sounds like a plea for decency, if not on the page, at least in the real world.  I wonder if he felt like he needed to go &#8220;wash out [his] brain&#8221; after Dresden?  You&#8217;d expect that retrieving charcoal corpses might &#8220;toughen [one's] skin&#8221; beyond the capacity to feel, much less write &#8220;one of the most beautiful pieces of literature [you've] ever read&#8221; &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cathryn</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-222148</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-222148</guid>
		<description>Gina (#39): Don&#039;t forget Billy&#039;s visit to the porn shop that comprises the second-to-last chapter.  I thought being an English major had given me a little bit of a tough skin, but I was wrong in this case.  (I&#039;d elaborate, but I&#039;m afraid that even a tactful allusion to Vonnegut&#039;s content there isn&#039;t something I&#039;d want to read myself.)

For the record, my jury&#039;s still out on the book.  I just finished it for the first time on Thursday, and up until about the last 20 pages, it was soon to top my list of all-time favorites.  It&#039;s one of the most beautiful pieces of literature I&#039;ve ever read; for me, a vast majority of the book was truly inspiring (yes, I understand that that&#039;s a strange thing to be saying about plunger aliens and firebombed cities, but so be it). It&#039;s tragic and humiliating and awe-inspiring, but most of all, it made me dig deeply into my preconceived notions about war and human nature and the reality of our agency.  The book tangles with things we often consider to be &quot;gospel topics&quot; artistically and (for the most part) with a hands-off delicacy that, I believe, truly forces a reader to examine and reevaluate his own beliefs.  I see it as an invaluable primer to Postmodern literature as a whole and to several of the issues our politicians are still tangling with today.

However--and this is a big caveat--I don&#039;t feel comfortable recommending the book.  To anyone.  Setting a sprinkling of sexual scenes aside, I can&#039;t advocate a text that includes those &quot;last 20 pages&quot; I already made mention of.  Chris, don&#039;t feel wrong for making an opposition to the text, because as has been said, it certainly isn&#039;t for everyone; in all actuality, I&#039;m not convinced it&#039;s for anyone.  If I could somehow remove the section(s?) of the book that peddle such wanton, graphic pornography without destroying the artistic integrity of the novel (and I speak here of the moral dilemma of changing an author&#039;s intended presentation, not from of any perceived merit of the material in question), I would feel comfortable giving Slaughterhouse-Five a cautious thumbs-up.  As it stands, though, Billy&#039;s nighttime adventures in downtown New York are too fresh in my mind to leave me comfortable.  Even now I feel like I need to go wash out my brain.

Of course, this is only my perspective.  I&#039;m sure that the parts of the book that bothered me so much wouldn&#039;t be problematic for many readers.  Coming adventures into Postmodern lit via some of my English classes (at BYU, no less) will probably serve to &quot;toughen my skin,&quot; such as it is.  I&#039;m just not sure that I want to be toughened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gina (#39): Don&#8217;t forget Billy&#8217;s visit to the porn shop that comprises the second-to-last chapter.  I thought being an English major had given me a little bit of a tough skin, but I was wrong in this case.  (I&#8217;d elaborate, but I&#8217;m afraid that even a tactful allusion to Vonnegut&#8217;s content there isn&#8217;t something I&#8217;d want to read myself.)</p>
<p>For the record, my jury&#8217;s still out on the book.  I just finished it for the first time on Thursday, and up until about the last 20 pages, it was soon to top my list of all-time favorites.  It&#8217;s one of the most beautiful pieces of literature I&#8217;ve ever read; for me, a vast majority of the book was truly inspiring (yes, I understand that that&#8217;s a strange thing to be saying about plunger aliens and firebombed cities, but so be it). It&#8217;s tragic and humiliating and awe-inspiring, but most of all, it made me dig deeply into my preconceived notions about war and human nature and the reality of our agency.  The book tangles with things we often consider to be &#8220;gospel topics&#8221; artistically and (for the most part) with a hands-off delicacy that, I believe, truly forces a reader to examine and reevaluate his own beliefs.  I see it as an invaluable primer to Postmodern literature as a whole and to several of the issues our politicians are still tangling with today.</p>
<p>However&#8211;and this is a big caveat&#8211;I don&#8217;t feel comfortable recommending the book.  To anyone.  Setting a sprinkling of sexual scenes aside, I can&#8217;t advocate a text that includes those &#8220;last 20 pages&#8221; I already made mention of.  Chris, don&#8217;t feel wrong for making an opposition to the text, because as has been said, it certainly isn&#8217;t for everyone; in all actuality, I&#8217;m not convinced it&#8217;s for anyone.  If I could somehow remove the section(s?) of the book that peddle such wanton, graphic pornography without destroying the artistic integrity of the novel (and I speak here of the moral dilemma of changing an author&#8217;s intended presentation, not from of any perceived merit of the material in question), I would feel comfortable giving Slaughterhouse-Five a cautious thumbs-up.  As it stands, though, Billy&#8217;s nighttime adventures in downtown New York are too fresh in my mind to leave me comfortable.  Even now I feel like I need to go wash out my brain.</p>
<p>Of course, this is only my perspective.  I&#8217;m sure that the parts of the book that bothered me so much wouldn&#8217;t be problematic for many readers.  Coming adventures into Postmodern lit via some of my English classes (at BYU, no less) will probably serve to &#8220;toughen my skin,&#8221; such as it is.  I&#8217;m just not sure that I want to be toughened.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-222076</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-222076</guid>
		<description>God Bless You, Mr. Vonnegut

http://www.slweekly.com/article.cfm/feature</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God Bless You, Mr. Vonnegut</p>
<p><a href="http://www.slweekly.com/article.cfm/feature" rel="nofollow">http://www.slweekly.com/article.cfm/feature</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-221921</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-221921</guid>
		<description>Lozzano was portrayed brilliantly in the film version.

Vonnegut, by the way, was extremely pleased with the film.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lozzano was portrayed brilliantly in the film version.</p>
<p>Vonnegut, by the way, was extremely pleased with the film.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Green</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-221918</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-221918</guid>
		<description>Gina, thank you for the overview of what might be offensive in Slaughterhouse-Five. I have absolutely no recollection of Lozzano at all. Based on your description, though, I can see that some people are not going to enjoy the book much and would probably be better off reading something else. I found enough value in the book at the time to warrant reading more of Vonnegut, but just about everything that I still find valuable is in the original post. I&#039;m sure there are equally good passages in other places, and in the last week a few people have published their own favorites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gina, thank you for the overview of what might be offensive in Slaughterhouse-Five. I have absolutely no recollection of Lozzano at all. Based on your description, though, I can see that some people are not going to enjoy the book much and would probably be better off reading something else. I found enough value in the book at the time to warrant reading more of Vonnegut, but just about everything that I still find valuable is in the original post. I&#8217;m sure there are equally good passages in other places, and in the last week a few people have published their own favorites.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-221911</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-221911</guid>
		<description>Ok, this all motivated me to reread Slaughterhouse Five yesterday. There are definitely plenty of instances of the f-bomb in the book, mainly coming from Lozzano, the rabid nasty soldier who loves revenge. A few cases of the s-word. Situations (although very briefly and not explicitly described) where Billy is drunk and cheats on his wife at a party and when he and Montana are in the zoo together and &quot;mate&quot;. Perhaps a few other small scenes one could find objectionable. 

I also reread the For the Strenght of Youth pamphlet on media. (Incidentally, I also read other sections and was really impressed with the content and tone. It made me feel good to read it and know these were the standards we set for our youth, and for all of us.) It states, &quot;Do not attend, view, or participate in entertainment that is vulgar, immoral, violent, or pornographic in any way. Do not participate in entertainment that in any way presents immorality or violent behavior as acceptable.&quot; 

Of course it is for each person to determine what is vulgar, immoral, violent, or pornographic. For myself I felt good reading the book. As I stated in a previous comment, what might seem vulgar in another context seemed tragic and necessary. Others might respond differently. In my opinion, the book *definitely* does not present any of these situations as acceptable; any immorality, etc is performed by very depressed, hopeless, desperate people who find no happiness in their behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, this all motivated me to reread Slaughterhouse Five yesterday. There are definitely plenty of instances of the f-bomb in the book, mainly coming from Lozzano, the rabid nasty soldier who loves revenge. A few cases of the s-word. Situations (although very briefly and not explicitly described) where Billy is drunk and cheats on his wife at a party and when he and Montana are in the zoo together and &#8220;mate&#8221;. Perhaps a few other small scenes one could find objectionable. </p>
<p>I also reread the For the Strenght of Youth pamphlet on media. (Incidentally, I also read other sections and was really impressed with the content and tone. It made me feel good to read it and know these were the standards we set for our youth, and for all of us.) It states, &#8220;Do not attend, view, or participate in entertainment that is vulgar, immoral, violent, or pornographic in any way. Do not participate in entertainment that in any way presents immorality or violent behavior as acceptable.&#8221; </p>
<p>Of course it is for each person to determine what is vulgar, immoral, violent, or pornographic. For myself I felt good reading the book. As I stated in a previous comment, what might seem vulgar in another context seemed tragic and necessary. Others might respond differently. In my opinion, the book *definitely* does not present any of these situations as acceptable; any immorality, etc is performed by very depressed, hopeless, desperate people who find no happiness in their behavior.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-221891</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-221891</guid>
		<description>Jonathan,

There was an old saying (maybe even a quote) that the grass would never grow where Brigham Young spat when he thought about lawyers.  I think that sentiment is a pretty good description of Chris&#039; apparent feelings about Vonnegut (and perhaps anyone who praises Vonnegut).  I read Slaughterhouse Five.  I do not recall the vulgarity to which Chris alludes, but it has been many years.  

My recollection is that I found the book disturbing and thought provoking, and one that I would have recommended (and did recommend to my children, a couple of whom have read it).  Given Chris&#039; reaction, I should probably read it again to see if his view is correct and my recollection incorrect.

I did like the humor excerpt by Vonnegut republished in the Atlantic this month.  I do not think there was any vulgarity in it (but I suppose I better re-read it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan,</p>
<p>There was an old saying (maybe even a quote) that the grass would never grow where Brigham Young spat when he thought about lawyers.  I think that sentiment is a pretty good description of Chris&#8217; apparent feelings about Vonnegut (and perhaps anyone who praises Vonnegut).  I read Slaughterhouse Five.  I do not recall the vulgarity to which Chris alludes, but it has been many years.  </p>
<p>My recollection is that I found the book disturbing and thought provoking, and one that I would have recommended (and did recommend to my children, a couple of whom have read it).  Given Chris&#8217; reaction, I should probably read it again to see if his view is correct and my recollection incorrect.</p>
<p>I did like the humor excerpt by Vonnegut republished in the Atlantic this month.  I do not think there was any vulgarity in it (but I suppose I better re-read it).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CS Eric</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2007/04/kurt-vonnegut/#comment-221877</link>
		<dc:creator>CS Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3813#comment-221877</guid>
		<description>Vonnegut seemed to me to be one of those who believed that &quot;art&quot; must push the edge and offend the middle class to be effective. Unfortunately for him, the &quot;edge&quot; became the middle class, and he seemed to be straining to stay on that edge and so be more &quot;relevant.&quot;  In the end, at least in my perspective, he became less and less relevant more because of those efforts rather than in spite of them.  Other examples of artists who shocked our parents and are now our darlings would probably include the Beatles and Dylan.  I also remember when M*A*S*H seemed too racy for good Mormons to watch, and now it seems tame.

And so it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vonnegut seemed to me to be one of those who believed that &#8220;art&#8221; must push the edge and offend the middle class to be effective. Unfortunately for him, the &#8220;edge&#8221; became the middle class, and he seemed to be straining to stay on that edge and so be more &#8220;relevant.&#8221;  In the end, at least in my perspective, he became less and less relevant more because of those efforts rather than in spite of them.  Other examples of artists who shocked our parents and are now our darlings would probably include the Beatles and Dylan.  I also remember when M*A*S*H seemed too racy for good Mormons to watch, and now it seems tame.</p>
<p>And so it goes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- WP Super Cache is installed but broken. The path to wp-cache-phase1.php in wp-content/advanced-cache.php must be fixed! -->
