Comments on: Your Mormon problem

By: queuno

queuno — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 03:44:11 +0000

Can we *please* stipulate the career field and the academic field when we’re asking this question?

BYU is a real trump card when we’re talking about engineering. Sorry if it’s a liability in your fields.

I could probably lecture for an hour about what is appropriate on a resume. There are different cases where it’s appropriate to put Eagle Scouts and missions — and there are cases where it’s just pathetic. In short – why are you still talking about high school and age 19-21. If you’re 25, it’s useful. If you’re still putting it on resumes at age 35, there may be other problems with your resume. I commented on this subject over at sunstoneblog.com (http://sunstoneblog.com/?p=213). I’ve collected a large corpus of resumes from church members during my time as a stake employment specialist. Maybe one day I’ll do a statistical analysis of the mission/eagle scout contents, but my off-the-cuff reaction is that whether or not those make it in are based strictly on AGE and EXPERIENCE.

Seriously, after 15 years with senior-level technical leadership jobs in IT and 4-page resume, do I really need to put my eagle scout and my mission? No. Saying I’m fluent in a language and saying my degree comes from BYU in the education section is a hint enough for the Mormons out there.

Again, I can’t speak for the English grads out there, but BYU has killer engineering and science cred.

By: Veritas

Veritas — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 02:34:37 +0000

I think missionaries totally should put their mission on their resume. Most applicants would kill for something like that to help them stand out from the crowd – thats why internships and study abroad programs are seen as valuable. If a hiring manager doesn’t want someone because of it, I think that reflects very negatively on their company and I’m not sure why you would want to work there. Its leadership and work experience, and often language ability and real-world cultural experience. That adds value to any organization. It has helped my husband get a job many times, and I know at my company RMs get called at a much higher rate than those who ONLY have a degree :)

By: Kramer

Kramer — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 02:04:43 +0000

Ardis

You had a comment about RM\’s posting information about thier mission on thier resume and shortly thereafter it being tossed into the trash. I will agree I very much dislike the \” I was a District Leader\” mentality but personally I feel my mission taught me more practical real world experience than my family ( my family situation was unique ), College, and my work related fields. I consider myself a very average person to to most if not all of my friends who are not of my faith think I am extraordinary. I am not bragging because I generally have heard this experience happens to most decent RM\’s. I could be wrong just throuwing it out there….

Also my wifes work only hires Mormon accountants ( she being the only mormon ) because they can be trusted with money. I have heard this experience happens to a lot of people.

By: greenfrog

greenfrog — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 00:36:59 +0000

From 5280, Denver’s local magazine: http://www.5280.com/issues/2007/0704/feature.php?pageID=745

By: Tatiana

Tatiana — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 22:15:48 +0000

My boss when I converted was an evangelical Christian, and he told me a bunch of anti stuff that some speaker at their church had given a talk on. So odd that they find Mormons to be a great enough evil to recruit speakers and rally the troops. Anyway, he was very unhappy with me when I decided to join the church. He said the devil had gotten hold of me. He quit trusting me, and things deteriorated between us to the point that I found another job. Since then it’s never been a problem. Not long after I started this job, two coworkers in the cubicle next to me were talking about how weird those people are (Mormons) because they think God talks to them and that’s scary. Apparently the thought that anyone here (southeastern U.S.) might be Mormon hadn’t crossed their minds. I popped my head in and said in a friendly way that I was Mormon but not to worry, I was very nonscary. One of them was nice about it, and the other never spoke to me again, but he was a walking lawsuit anyway, since he said things in poor taste about women and other ethnic groups all the time (a huge nono in my firm) and he left the company soon thereafter.

Otherwise it’s been no problem at all, and I would not try to hide it, although there isn’t anything in my resume to give it away. The company I work for now has several LDS people sprinkled here and there, as it turns out, people with many years of service, and in various positions of authority, so it really seems they don’t discriminate. I like my company. There is an awesome amount of diversity and it works well for us.

By: Naismith

Naismith — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:56:13 +0000

The reality is that we all affect one another, for good or for ill. Am I the only one who holds my breath when someone says, “I worked with a Mormon once…” Because one is not sure if the stories will be a tale of condescending superiority and refusal to work on a weekend to meet a deadline, or if it will be a positive story of high integrity and reliability.

I’ve benefitted from the latter. My first job in my current field, I was picked out of maybe 75 applicants for the job BECAUSE I was a BYU grad, and that supervisor had a positive experience with a BYU grad who was his best supervisor.

But as for the department chair who felt burned by BYU grads who left him in the lurch, welll, that’s the other side of the coin, isn’t it? We can’t accept the benefits and disown the downside.

By: Ardis Parshall

Ardis Parshall — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:19:49 +0000

Seth, I got my first teenager job because my bishop needed a gopher in his office. I got another job because a temp agency sent me for a week, and the firm bought out my contract with the temp agency. Except for that, my work for more than 20 years came from sending in a resume, cold. Now that I’m self-employed, I *still* have to write the equivalent of a resume every time I want to speak at a conference or teach a workshop.

My resumes are effective. They have to be, since I don’t have the credentials people ordinarily expect for the work I do.

By: Veritas

Veritas — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:34:54 +0000

Seth,
As a recruiter for a um, large, software corporation I would say that your resume being irrelevant it totally false. Connections will get your resume further up the food chain faster, but TRUST ME…you need a resume and it needs to be articulate and contain relevant information. I think Ardis’ advice is very good regarding what to include. And sending in your resume cold, if you are a great candidate, absolutly does work. It might just take longer.

I can’t imagine leaving your university off your resume however. If I saw a resume with no University info I would be annoyed…I might call the candidate and ask before I moved any further. I want to know they went to real accredited university and didn’t get there BS/BA from joeshmo online college or something. If the organization you are applying to won’t hire you because of that, I’m not sure why you would want to work there. Reading this thread, I’m really glad I’m not in Academia.

By: Seth R.

Seth R. — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:41:25 +0000

This whole conversation seems oblivious to the fact that for most jobs in America. Your resume is pretty much a waste of time.

People get jobs through personal contacts in this country. Not by sending out a mass-mailer campaign, no matter what the misguided books in the career section of the bookstore say.

You want a job?

Go meet people in your field.

And quit wasting time fussing about your resume and cover letter.

By: Ardis Parshall

Ardis Parshall — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:20:48 +0000

#48 – Coffinberry, since you called on me, my real-world advice is to remind you that you’re not telling the story of your life — your potential employer doesn’t care about your life unless she’s your mother. You’re describing yourself as the person that employer wants for the job. If your Scouting experience is relevant, tailor your resume to make Scouting match the job as closely as possible. If Scouting isn’t especially relevant, then don’t describe it; relegate it to “community service” if you include it at all.

My earlier advice about not inflating means that if Primary is relevant, say so — but don’t try to make it look like teaching a class of half a dozen Sunbeams is equivalent to being headmaster of an exclusive private school where you are in charge not only of instruction but also of physical development (finger plays), nutrition (cookies), and deportment (‘sit down and shut up!’), with a side specialty of voice coach (‘Jesus wants me for a SunBEAM’).

I interviewed candidates for a technical writing position where I asked for samples. As posted, the position involved writing training materials for people learning to use a specialized in-house computer program. The samples submitted included poetry, a book report on the Star Trek language Klingon, and a sheaf of PTA bulletins with one candidate’s two-line calendar announcements. How could I know whether those writers could translate geek-speak to English? The only candidates I called in were those whose samples were more or less related to the job I was hiring for — i.e., the candidates who had described themselves as already doing the work I needed. FWIW.