Comments on: The Cursing of Mormon Lawyers http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/ Truth Will Prevail Thu, 24 May 2012 18:26:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: C Bass http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-268361 C Bass Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:39:32 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-268361 If I had the same life experiences that Brigham Young did with lawyers I would have had the same attitude. It\'s good to know that today there are so many good LDS attorneys. If I had the same life experiences that Brigham Young did with lawyers I would have had the same attitude. It\’s good to know that today there are so many good LDS attorneys.

]]> By: grego http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215768 grego Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:01:37 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215768 #2: Is sending Elder Benson to Europe current enough? Anyway, maybe that's why Asia gets the 70's it gets? (Sorry, just thinking in particular of one grouchy old man...) I love Brigham and his ways! #2: Is sending Elder Benson to Europe current enough?

Anyway, maybe that’s why Asia gets the 70′s it gets? (Sorry, just thinking in particular of one grouchy old man…)

I love Brigham and his ways!

]]> By: Matt W. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215731 Matt W. Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:27:51 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215731 fairly true, but as things have changed, gone also are the days when missionaries are sent out without first volunterring via application first (outside of Mission Presidents). There may be outliers to this, but none that I am aware of. fairly true, but as things have changed, gone also are the days when missionaries are sent out without first volunterring via application first (outside of Mission Presidents). There may be outliers to this, but none that I am aware of.

]]> By: j.a.t. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215727 j.a.t. Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:15:10 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215727 Matt W. True . . . things have changed a great deal from BY's good ol' days of sending missionaries out w/o purse or script. Wouldn't it be different though to send out a missionary or couple vs a mission president? Missionaries have allocated living stipends an no access to general funds. That would be relatively safe. Matt W.
True . . . things have changed a great deal from BY’s good ol’ days of sending missionaries out w/o purse or script. Wouldn’t it be different though to send out a missionary or couple vs a mission president? Missionaries have allocated living stipends an no access to general funds. That would be relatively safe.

]]> By: Matt W. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215719 Matt W. Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:25:54 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215719 j.a.t.- I am not sure how this ties to BY's purported program of putting them to work. If someone steals finances from the Church, it is probably ill advised to put them in charge of a mission, where they have direct access to large amounts of Church moneys. j.a.t.- I am not sure how this ties to BY’s purported program of putting them to work. If someone steals finances from the Church, it is probably ill advised to put them in charge of a mission, where they have direct access to large amounts of Church moneys.

]]> By: Nate Oman http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215717 Nate Oman Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:01:54 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215717 j.at.: I actually think that it is fairly common for BYU profs to get called as mission presidents. I can think of two or three that I personally know who have been called pre-retirement. Obviously, most mission presidents are not BYU professors and most BYU professors are not mission presidents, but there are a lot of BYU professors who have been mission presidents. j.at.: I actually think that it is fairly common for BYU profs to get called as mission presidents. I can think of two or three that I personally know who have been called pre-retirement. Obviously, most mission presidents are not BYU professors and most BYU professors are not mission presidents, but there are a lot of BYU professors who have been mission presidents.

]]> By: Chance http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215716 Chance Thu, 21 Dec 2006 15:54:59 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215716 j.a.t.: Just b/c we’re anonymous bloggers doesn’t mean that one has to throw etiquette out the window. My point exactly. If you are posting queries about this issue, T&S is (or should) obvioulsy (be) the wrong forumn. To address these queries with anyone but the source, in the manner that you presented them (anomously on a random blog), is purely gossip. j.a.t.: Just b/c we’re anonymous bloggers doesn’t mean that one has to throw etiquette out the window.

My point exactly.

If you are posting queries about this issue, T&S is (or should) obvioulsy (be) the wrong forumn. To address these queries with anyone but the source, in the manner that you presented them (anomously on a random blog), is purely gossip.

]]> By: j.a.t. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215650 j.a.t. Tue, 19 Dec 2006 21:48:23 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215650 Chance, Just b/c we're anonymous bloggers doesn't mean that one has to throw etiquette out the window. Mark B. We both are speaking anecdotally, me from my experiences knowing "a lot" of people coming from situation X, and you knowing “a lot” of people coming from situation Y. Have I also known a lot of Y’s? Absolutely. I’m surprised that my experiences, albeit different from yours, were dismissed in an environment of discourse. Strange. Why so dispelling instead of querying? Since neither of us knows all of the missionaries and/or mission presidents called, isn’t it possible that we could simply be describing entirely different people from different perspectives? That’s why I put a disclaimer on my comment having stemmed from my experiences, not ever wishing to label your parents or friend or a dear mission president that someone loved and admired. Obviously I stepped on some toes, and my apologies. Also, I am aware of the process by which sr. missionaries, mission presidents and temple presidencies etc. are called and sent on missions. I also have known sr. missionaries who have been ‘called’ on missions and asked to submit the paperwork. They go voluntarily, but there are various degrees of volunteerism. In the words of Radar O’Riley in M*A*S*H* to Col. Henry Black, “Um Sir, you kind of volunteered me rather quickly there, Sir.” Might I suggest that human nature might not be clearly black and white, and that there might be imperfect saints as works in progress? God doesn't call perfect saints on missions; he calls mortals. There ARE very high standards for missionaries young and old, but the standard is the lowest common denominator. I concur with Danithew who suggested that it wasn’t just a problem BY was addressing, but also a solution in sending out aggravating saints to go work in the mission field for a while. Missions are for the missionaries too! Matt W. Looking at the Deseret News every week, don’t you think Truman Madsen’s experience is an exception not the rule? Your adjective “sad” well describes experiences in which church membership is affected by unethical financial stewardship. And yes, there are vigilant processes and severe consequences associated with misappropriation. However it does happen and we’re probably being naive if we think we are catching it 100% of the time. And so what if we did? I don’t think it would change the status quo much. Whether we’re talking about people who have been dipping into petty cash or weasely lawyers, BY’s solution to put them to work might still be a pretty good idea. Chance,
Just b/c we’re anonymous bloggers doesn’t mean that one has to throw etiquette out the window.

Mark B. We both are speaking anecdotally, me from my experiences knowing “a lot” of people coming from situation X, and you knowing “a lot” of people coming from situation Y. Have I also known a lot of Y’s? Absolutely. I’m surprised that my experiences, albeit different from yours, were dismissed in an environment of discourse. Strange. Why so dispelling instead of querying? Since neither of us knows all of the missionaries and/or mission presidents called, isn’t it possible that we could simply be describing entirely different people from different perspectives? That’s why I put a disclaimer on my comment having stemmed from my experiences, not ever wishing to label your parents or friend or a dear mission president that someone loved and admired. Obviously I stepped on some toes, and my apologies.

Also, I am aware of the process by which sr. missionaries, mission presidents and temple presidencies etc. are called and sent on missions. I also have known sr. missionaries who have been ‘called’ on missions and asked to submit the paperwork. They go voluntarily, but there are various degrees of volunteerism. In the words of Radar O’Riley in M*A*S*H* to Col. Henry Black, “Um Sir, you kind of volunteered me rather quickly there, Sir.”

Might I suggest that human nature might not be clearly black and white, and that there might be imperfect saints as works in progress? God doesn’t call perfect saints on missions; he calls mortals. There ARE very high standards for missionaries young and old, but the standard is the lowest common denominator. I concur with Danithew who suggested that it wasn’t just a problem BY was addressing, but also a solution in sending out aggravating saints to go work in the mission field for a while. Missions are for the missionaries too!

Matt W. Looking at the Deseret News every week, don’t you think Truman Madsen’s experience is an exception not the rule? Your adjective “sad” well describes experiences in which church membership is affected by unethical financial stewardship. And yes, there are vigilant processes and severe consequences associated with misappropriation. However it does happen and we’re probably being naive if we think we are catching it 100% of the time. And so what if we did? I don’t think it would change the status quo much. Whether we’re talking about people who have been dipping into petty cash or weasely lawyers, BY’s solution to put them to work might still be a pretty good idea.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215613 J. Stapley Tue, 19 Dec 2006 05:37:58 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215613 I just happened upon a cogent remark of Brigham Young in a letter he wrote to his son John W. in 1866: <blockquote>We had quite an influx of lawyers into the city of late. Like the birds of prey they snuff the carcass from afar. (<em>Letters of Brigham Young to His Sons</em>, pg 81.)</blockquote> I just happened upon a cogent remark of Brigham Young in a letter he wrote to his son John W. in 1866:

We had quite an influx of lawyers into the city of late. Like the birds of prey they snuff the carcass from afar. (Letters of Brigham Young to His Sons, pg 81.)

]]> By: Nate Oman http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/12/the-cursing-of-mormon-lawyers/#comment-215608 Nate Oman Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:51:19 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3643#comment-215608 The difference between BY and HN is that BY learned from experience. At the end of his life he called promising young men (most notably Franklin S. Richards) to become lawyers. His successors continued the practice, and my great, great grandfather was called by Wilford Woodruff to study law at Cornell. The difference between BY and HN is that BY learned from experience. At the end of his life he called promising young men (most notably Franklin S. Richards) to become lawyers. His successors continued the practice, and my great, great grandfather was called by Wilford Woodruff to study law at Cornell.

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