Comments on: The Language of Scripture Alone http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:57:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DKL http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206767 DKL Wed, 26 Jul 2006 04:11:07 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206767 Clark, I'm referring to "we call aesthetic beauty," which is, for Plato, art. For Plato, this is just a presentation layer. There's a sense in which the beauty portrayed in such art is not true beauty as Plato would define it, but to pedestrians such as ourselves (seriously, anyone here seen a form?), it's all the same. I mean, who wouldn't prefer watching Raiders of the Lost Ark to reading a math textbook? For Plato, this is the very reason that art is subversive: it can exemplify falseness in beautiful ways. Elvis addressed this very issue in his hit song, "You're the Devil in Disguise." Clark, I’m referring to “we call aesthetic beauty,” which is, for Plato, art. For Plato, this is just a presentation layer. There’s a sense in which the beauty portrayed in such art is not true beauty as Plato would define it, but to pedestrians such as ourselves (seriously, anyone here seen a form?), it’s all the same. I mean, who wouldn’t prefer watching Raiders of the Lost Ark to reading a math textbook? For Plato, this is the very reason that art is subversive: it can exemplify falseness in beautiful ways. Elvis addressed this very issue in his hit song, “You’re the Devil in Disguise.”

]]> By: Clark http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206765 Clark Wed, 26 Jul 2006 03:49:56 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206765 DKL, what are you thinking of. Wasn't Plato's point that what beauty, truth and goodness <i>really</i> is is the One? DKL, what are you thinking of. Wasn’t Plato’s point that what beauty, truth and goodness really is is the One?

]]> By: Susan http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206763 Susan Wed, 26 Jul 2006 03:29:05 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206763 And then there's narrative. How could you miss that, Nate. And then there’s narrative. How could you miss that, Nate.

]]> By: DKL http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206698 DKL Tue, 25 Jul 2006 04:18:10 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206698 Kristine, as tempting is it is to say that all beauty comes from God, or that everything that God offers has great aesthetic value, I just don't think that it's so. There are a great many truths that just aren't pretty. Moreover, there are a great many evils that can be made to appear to be things of great beauty. Plato's critique of art is correct insofar as it recognizes that what we call aesthetic beauty and truth are logically independent of each other. I don't want to sound like a philistine, but it seems to me that our mortal conception of beauty is always already only skin-deep, and I just can't see the purpose of trying to tie God into our messy notion of beauty. Why is the linguistic impact of the scriptures any more a sign of divinity than (say) the impact of a good, four-star movie? Kristine, as tempting is it is to say that all beauty comes from God, or that everything that God offers has great aesthetic value, I just don’t think that it’s so. There are a great many truths that just aren’t pretty. Moreover, there are a great many evils that can be made to appear to be things of great beauty. Plato’s critique of art is correct insofar as it recognizes that what we call aesthetic beauty and truth are logically independent of each other.

I don’t want to sound like a philistine, but it seems to me that our mortal conception of beauty is always already only skin-deep, and I just can’t see the purpose of trying to tie God into our messy notion of beauty. Why is the linguistic impact of the scriptures any more a sign of divinity than (say) the impact of a good, four-star movie?

]]> By: Kristine Haglund Harris http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206694 Kristine Haglund Harris Tue, 25 Jul 2006 02:15:33 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206694 "I think that we should try to shy away from associating properties of language that are aesthetically rewarding with those that have religious significance" Why? “I think that we should try to shy away from associating properties of language that are aesthetically rewarding with those that have religious significance”

Why?

]]> By: DKL http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206685 DKL Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:23:31 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206685 Johnna and Michael and Mark, the way I see it is that Psalms is a hymnal that got canonized. That's why it's aesthetically pleasing in isolated portions, but fairly tiresome to read the entire book in sequence the whole way through--like reading the entire LDS Hymnal or listening to every Billy Joel song in sequence. Many of the songs in the LDS Hymnal read better than some passages of canonized text, but that hardly makes them scripture. Language, as language, can be elevating. But I think that we should try to shy away from associating properties of language that are aesthetically rewarding with those that have religious significance. Johnna and Michael and Mark, the way I see it is that Psalms is a hymnal that got canonized. That’s why it’s aesthetically pleasing in isolated portions, but fairly tiresome to read the entire book in sequence the whole way through–like reading the entire LDS Hymnal or listening to every Billy Joel song in sequence. Many of the songs in the LDS Hymnal read better than some passages of canonized text, but that hardly makes them scripture.

Language, as language, can be elevating. But I think that we should try to shy away from associating properties of language that are aesthetically rewarding with those that have religious significance.

]]> By: Johnna http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206650 Johnna Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:51:54 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206650 Of course Psalms are the most inspired. That's why the writers of the New Testament letters quote them more than any other Old Testament book to proof-text Christianity. Of course Psalms are the most inspired. That’s why the writers of the New Testament letters quote them more than any other Old Testament book to proof-text Christianity.

]]> By: Mark Butler http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206648 Mark Butler Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:10:17 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206648 I echo what Michael said in (#3). I echo what Michael said in (#3).

]]> By: Michael McBride http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206647 Michael McBride Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:34:31 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206647 I've had a similar experience with the Psalms. I remember reading them and thinking, "These are some of the most inspired words in the Bible." I’ve had a similar experience with the Psalms. I remember reading them and thinking, “These are some of the most inspired words in the Bible.”

]]> By: smb http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/07/the-language-of-scripture-alone/#comment-206641 smb Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:49:10 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=3320#comment-206641 I remember giving a talk some years back about scriptures as the \"habitat of the righteous.\" I still have a sense that it\'s true, this idea that being in the right place emotionally or aesthetically, as a result of time spent habitually in scripture, leaves one open to novel revelations independent of any given text. In that way this practice of \"sortie\" so popular in medieval catholicism and in segments of contemporary Mormonism and Evangelical Protestantism (flip open to any page to hear God\'s word for you today, something like a scriptural horoscope) may actually have some grounding (however inscrutable) in a reasonable relationship with scripture. I remember giving a talk some years back about scriptures as the \”habitat of the righteous.\” I still have a sense that it\’s true, this idea that being in the right place emotionally or aesthetically, as a result of time spent habitually in scripture, leaves one open to novel revelations independent of any given text. In that way this practice of \”sortie\” so popular in medieval catholicism and in segments of contemporary Mormonism and Evangelical Protestantism (flip open to any page to hear God\’s word for you today, something like a scriptural horoscope) may actually have some grounding (however inscrutable) in a reasonable relationship with scripture.

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