On the broader point, I couldn’t agree with you more, that the ideal within Zion is to look beyond all earthly distinctions and be united in Christ regardless of race, class, gender, education, whatever. This is one of the most beautiful aspects of the temple (although there is a gender distinction there), and of 4 Nephi (no “-ites”).

However, I’m a bit dubious of the “colorblindness” model. While Zion has no racial distinctions, and God doesn’t discriminate based on race, the fact of the matter is we live in a world in which our interactions are heavily influenced by racial and class distinctions. So to pretend like they’re not there means that we’re not addressing real problems. I genuinely aspire to treat all people with equal respect, but if I pretended that some people weren’t labeled “African American” or “poor” in our society, and pretended that those labels and social categories didn’t mean something in very real terms and often lead to discrimination or marginalization, it would mean that I’m neglecting injustice in the world and refusing to look evil in the face for the sake of an idyllic myth that I’ve created in my head. I think “colorblindness” is a great excuse for white people to neglect race as a continuing problem (“we’re all the same, now can we just stop talking about race?”). Of course, it’s a paradox, because by highlighting race as a distinction I am essentially doing what I hope to counter, but I don’t know any way of addressing problems other than addressing them. (And to be clear, the problem isn’t race, it’s how we deal with it, which is usually quite badly.)

If you interpreted my post as somehow racist or classist, I sincerely apologize — it was genuinely meant as just the opposite, as a plea for help in overcoming our divisions based on race and class. But I just don’t know how to talk about real distinctions without making grammatical distinctions as well.

But do other people know who go through all kinds of experiences. It is so easy to look down on other because of their dress, their racial background, etc etc etc

Lets all look what Jesus did in the stories in the bible he excepted all.
He said that the what comes out of our hearts and mouths is more importend then the outside of us.
And sometimes I find that feeling of aceptence more in with other churches then in the lds church.

Elizabeth

We are only mere mortals.

We are not gods, and sometimes we just can’t be everything for everyone.

With a small child and not much money I was not able to go to church much. There was another older brother who lived close to me and he would also go by train.
The last few monts I was living there the church would pay for our transportation . I think the whole trainride cost about 10 dollars.

The last time I recived money from the branch president he made me feel very akward about it. Since I was originally from Holland he supposed that I would be able to have money enough for my self to pay the ride.
Believe me I rather pay all myself then take a handout.

Anyway I the branchpresident said that the missionpresident had told the missionaries not to proselite outside zagreb anymore because it was costing the church to much money to help people comming to the church.

The fire I had felt with my rebaptism started to lower at that time. If I would not have the money to go and the church sais they don’t want to pay it, how can I go to church.

I have been a active member in my native Holland. in Belgium , in Salt Lake City and then in Croatia.
But I have never been so poor as in Croatia and I did not feel welcome anymore because I was one of those persons that cost the church to much money.

Just sharing my experience that is all

Elizabeth ( your favorite dutchie)

I am white member of the church and over the years I have learned I do no fitt in “the group”because I associated with everyone.
One day a member said you know everyone and you speak with every one . And I was so amazed because ofcourse I speak with everyone.

My black ladyfriend gave me the biggest complement reacently.
She said that I was a turned around Bounty.
white on the outside but brown on the inside.

Elizabeth ( your favorite Dutchie)

I don\’t mean to be hostile, but just by your wording about \”these people\” and \”them vs. us\” are precisely why new minority converts feel that they do not fit into the mainstream predominately white wards in the church around the country. There\’s a distinct overtone in many mainstream white members who treat minority converts including long time minority members and children born under the covenant as outsiders. And being poor has little merit. I\’m a black female member of the church and served a full-time mission. My husband is also an African American returned missionary. He has his own home-based business and is also a Vice President of a prestigious company. We are by no means poor. Yet we had grounds to leave the church a thousand times. I agree with you to some degree that poverty, cultural clashes or identity and conversion to the missionaries have a bearing on why some minority members may leave the church after joining; however, after 27 years of activity in the church, I\’ve come to realize that it\’s much more than that. Minority members tend to leave the church when…members look down or up their noses at them, when white members set themselves up as masters feeding the dogs off \”their\” tables, when members insult the intelligences of minority members by displaying stereotypical behaviors and not possessing racial indifferences dividing themselves into categories of \”us and \”them\”, when the mainstream white members forget that the church belongs to Christ and not to them or their children, or their Moms or Dads or Grandfather, or Grandmother or the grategrategrands who personally walk the pioneer trail, when members forget that it is Christ who invited every minority and other new converts to his church at his invitation instead of the missionaries remembering that missionaries are intended to be the instrument in God\’s hands.

When the main white steam members of the church learn to love their brothers and sisters of color and all others who are not within their race then the problems of retention state wide will be solved. I am hopeful and am thankful to members who are of a Christ like mindset who are color blinds and deem incoming minority coverts as themselves – a member of Christ church by his invitation and who\’s willing to uphold their baptism covenant of loving and caring for one another.

:)

DW is of the opinion that Sunday best includes hose — even in the heat of TGSOT. Glad I’m a male, in that regard…