If I understand your analogy, you are saying that the people didn’t have all that much to do with it. Rather, it was a different time and place and God needed them as the right tool. I don’t really like that argument, because it leaves me feeling like there is no individual component to becoming chosen, and if that is true then I am confused by D&C “many are called, but few are chosen….” I realize that I might be totally missing your point, which is my fault for staying up too late, or you may be right and I just have to accept that explanation whether I like it or not.

I should say, then, that I do see the “chosen one” as more priveleged than the “not chosen,” at least in the sense that I think it is a privelege to commune with the Lord, have his commandments, etc. When I read Esau’s response to losing the blessing, I get the sense that he feels like he has lost something valuable–so valuable that he tries to “ring the last drop of blessing” out of Jacob.

I have been discussing this question off and on at work with a Jewish friend. He had an interesting idea that he promised to run past his rabbi this weekend. I’ll keep you posted.

To choose a tool to do a job isn’t to say that it is the best tool in the shop. It is merely to say that it is (1) available and (2) suited for the job. You can’t even conclude that it is the best of all the tools for this particular job, since there might be multiple tools that could do the job equally well. This might just happen to be the one chosen out of several that were equally possible. As I understand LDS doctrine, we are now the chosen people (which is not to say that God has forgotten or will forget his ancient covenant with Israel). But that only means that we have a work to do, not that we are better than anyone else. The same reasoning could apply to Joseph or Judah or . . . .

Now that I’m re-reading this, I’m thinking–maybe that’s a major theme of Genesis–agency and how it fits into the plans and purposes of God. The book began (OK, if we look at Moses) with a war to defend it, and a decision to agressively apply it (partaking of the Tree of Knowledge), then we get example after example of what people do with it and how those decisions affected them and those around them, as well as the very clear message that, use it as we will, we can’t thwart the purposes of God with it. It’s almost as if He is saying, “Go ahead, give it your best shot, and I’ll work with you.” like he did with the brother of Jared and the lights in the boats (well those weren’t his exact words;^)).

In addition to Jim’s point (which I think also pertains to the “God slew Onan” phraseology, mentioned in one of the comments above), I think Joseph expressing his forgiveness this way makes a very strong statement about the fact that God foreknew this would happen, or at least provided that it would work out for the best in the end.

To me, this underscores an important aspect of repentance and forgiveness, that once we receive forgiveness we can move on with our lives, without dwelling on “what if’s”, unduly wondering what might’ve happened if we hadn’t sinned (cf. Phil 3:13; click on the Discussion tab for some additional comments). One could argue this is also the point of Ether 12:27: although perhaps God doesn’t literally give or cause our weakness, he has allowed it and makes allowances for it in his Plan of Salvation as well as in his individual-specific, dynamic, mapped-out plan for each of our lives. (I think I’m just speculating at this point…).

Clinton: I hope you will contribute ideas from Kabbala as they arise. I think it helps others see that there are many way of interpreting the scriptures, and many layers of meaning in them.

I am glad you enjoy the added symbolism to be found in the Old and New Testament. YashaNET’s is a Messianic Judaism group that has interesting views. If you have added interest on the subject then I would suggest the Sepher Ha Zohar. The new version by Matt is excellent. Trust me when I say I have NO desire to hijack this thread. I don’t have the time to contribute copiously. Finally I agree that Kabbalistic interpretation are “tricky.”

Why is Joseph re-writing history? I understand that God may have intended or desired Joseph to become the father of Egypt, but it was neither God nor inspiration from God to have the brothers sell Joseph sold into slavery. That was their doing — they made the decision, motivated by less-than-godlike attributes of jealousy, hatred, and envy. It was wrong of them to do it, and doesn’t pretending that it was God’s doing unnecessarily lessen the burden of responsibility? I understand that Joseph forgave his brothers for what they did, but in doing so, did he have to pretend that it didn’t happen the way it did? If this is intended by Joseph to show his brothers that something great came out of their poor decisions, then I think there are better ways in which to express that.

Any thoughts?

Regarding forgiveness, I used Esau in Gen 33 with my 12-14 year-olds and it seemed to go over well—Esau not only as an example in forgiving Jacob, but an example of why we can’t judge others as all good or all bad (I taught Jacob and Rebekah’s actions as being dubious, though they probably probably had good motivations b/c of Esau’s disinterest in the birthright). I’m always surprised how spiritually mature these kids are, they seemed more comfotable with this notion (that most people have good and bad in them) than most of us adults are….