Comments on: Eddie Murphy on Richard Bushman

By: Jim F.

Jim F. — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:01:02 +0000

Aletheia: touché

By: Aletheia

Aletheia — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:27:00 +0000

I always discover new things when I surf this board. It seems to me as a “Gentile” of the Greek Orthodox persuasion that the anecdotes here run a little thin as proofs of the continuing exclusion of Mormons from mainstream American society and/or displays of persistent prejudice or misunderstanding by non-Mormons. That’s not to say that Mormons don’t come up for some undue criticism of their religious beliefs qua religious beliefs (I think they get to play the stand-in for alot of the rest of us) but I’d remind the board of the sometimes experience of the extra-Mormon world with particular LDS members. There’s a good quorum of Mormons among my colleagues and I’ve even been a minority member of some graduate classes on history of the West where LDS members formed the majority (and were there, in part, to police and correct any criticism of the Church in that context). As a rule, my colleagues and classmates have been reticent to engage in comparative religious discussion of any depth (overcome somewhat with time and long acquaintance), seem quick to point out what’s weird and uncommon in other religious ideologies, and pull together rather staunchly when faced with even mild critical comment on actions of the Church or particular Mormon subsets in the larger history of the West (I’m thinking of the class here). Which is all to say that Mormons can practice an insularity (outside of Utah too) that doesn’t reflect well on them or do them credit when they call attention to experiences of discomfort when passing or standing-alone in the non-Mormon world.

Let me suggest an alternative that, while not a solution, will make for a better environment and may even give those on the board a sort of place on the moral high ground. Be open to conversations with interested non-Mormons and keep them within the realm of sincere but rigorous exchange (as opposed to an opportunity for proselytism or debate that leads to conversion in the short or long terms (Of course, this goes for both sides)). Reflect a little on those signs and signals, subtle and not-so-subtle, that Mormons as a group can give to non-Mormons that, whatever’s said or done, true community will come to exist once non-members leave the room. Sometimes the beat of the Mormon boogy can be felt even before one leaves the room. Doing so might give more force to the concerns and complaints voiced in the long discussion above.

By: grego

grego — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:08:22 +0000

Cyril wrote: “I just got finished trying to help Tom Campbell, an LDS lawyer, defeat Tom DeLay in the Republican primaries here in Houston.”

KUDOs for doing so!! Better luck next time…

By: Polly

Polly — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:59:21 +0000

Jordan Says:
“John:
You would have the â€œsameâ€? potential â€œinbredâ€? negative if you had done both major degrees at the same university anywhere else in the country.”

‘cept Texas. It’s a badge of honor, here!

By: Jordan

Jordan — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:18:13 +0000

John:

You would have the “same” potential “inbred” negative if you had done both major degrees at the same university anywhere else in the country.

By: annegb

annegb — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:21:21 +0000

I always stand up for the underdog. Mormons in Utah are the over dogs, which places me in a strange position. I think it would be easier for me to defend the church if there were less of us and we were weaker and less prosperous. I know that’s not quite the feeling I should have, but it’s the feeling I do have. I most often find myself defending others against my fellow Mormons who are quick to keep score and condemn.

Whatever’s happening outside of Utah doesn’t compute with me. I find myself constantly battling my inner feeling of superiority to the rest of the world, I can’t relate to feeling inferior because I’m a Mormon. And because I’m tired, I’m not gonna apologize to anybody. Today.

By: john f.

john f. — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:17:46 +0000

I think that it can be a “con” of going to BYU actually. I have it on my resume twice. Even though I also have Oxford on my resume, I look inbred to many.

By: DKL

DKL — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:51:48 +0000

From what you (and others) are saying, John, that sounds like a very good reason not to go to BYU. The continuing ecclesiastical endorsement (which led to my expulsion from BYU when I ran afoul of it by never going to church) turned out to be a great blessing for me and my family. And provides a further testimony to me of the inspiration of our leaders–the Lord works in mysterious ways…)

By: john f.

john f. — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:41:06 +0000

DKL wrote Moreover, Iâ€™m perplexed to hear about all of these situations in which people know about someoneâ€™s church membership prior to their meeting him. Is this because BYU is on the resume?

Yes, if BYU is on your resume, then people definitely know you’re a Latter-day Saint from the outset.

By: sid

sid — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:02:48 +0000

As an Indian immigrant who joined the Church while a student at the Univ of Michigan, people never get around to assuming that I am a Mormon. Too much of a stretch for them. So, I do get to hear a lot of negative things said about Mormons. But, in Ann Arbor, Mormons get bashed ( verbally, of course), becasue our Church is known as a conservative Church that does not do the bidding of NOW, NARAL, and the many GLBT groups that are very active in our town. We are a bunch of generally socially conservative people on a town that is just a little less than Berkeley , so, we, as a group are not much appreciated.
The only people I have met locally who seemed to hate Mormons with a passion, were members of the various Evangelical groups.
-Sid