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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;But that&#8217;s just socially constructed&#8230;&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: mullingandmusing (m&#38;m)</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123672</link>
		<dc:creator>mullingandmusing (m&#38;m)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123672</guid>
		<description>#33 and #34:
Isn&#039;t this part of the reason the Proclamation is such a revolutionary and exciting document (although sometimes dismissed as old-fashioned or simple-minded)? (See also Elder Bednar&#039;s recent talk in the general leadership broadcast, which touched on male/female differences and marriage.) I think the Proclamation (and our prophets) can help us ferret out what just IS (or is supposed to be) and what is socially constructed regarding family, marriage, gender, etc. So necessary in today&#039;s world! 

(For example, I recently read a book talking about how groups at the UN somehow came up with five different genders, also leaving room for more socially constructed definitions. Without some anchors in place (such as are provided by the Proclamation, for example), social constructionism can take on a (sometimes scary) life of its own.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#33 and #34:<br />
Isn&#8217;t this part of the reason the Proclamation is such a revolutionary and exciting document (although sometimes dismissed as old-fashioned or simple-minded)? (See also Elder Bednar&#8217;s recent talk in the general leadership broadcast, which touched on male/female differences and marriage.) I think the Proclamation (and our prophets) can help us ferret out what just IS (or is supposed to be) and what is socially constructed regarding family, marriage, gender, etc. So necessary in today&#8217;s world! </p>
<p>(For example, I recently read a book talking about how groups at the UN somehow came up with five different genders, also leaving room for more socially constructed definitions. Without some anchors in place (such as are provided by the Proclamation, for example), social constructionism can take on a (sometimes scary) life of its own.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Green</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123655</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123655</guid>
		<description>Nate: I maintain that the concept of social construction reveals somewhat more than it obscures, because you can&#039;t analyze something until you realize that it is amenable to analysis.

Christian: The author was once my mother&#039;s visiting teacher. Borrow a copy and read it for amusement&#039;s sake, if nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate: I maintain that the concept of social construction reveals somewhat more than it obscures, because you can&#8217;t analyze something until you realize that it is amenable to analysis.</p>
<p>Christian: The author was once my mother&#8217;s visiting teacher. Borrow a copy and read it for amusement&#8217;s sake, if nothing else.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Y. Cardall</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123644</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Y. Cardall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123644</guid>
		<description>As it so happens there was a wave of popularity of Fascinating Womanhood in our area recently. I haven&#039;t read the book, and my wife sort doesn&#039;t want me too, lest I discover the tricks she&#039;s using to manipulate me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As it so happens there was a wave of popularity of Fascinating Womanhood in our area recently. I haven&#8217;t read the book, and my wife sort doesn&#8217;t want me too, lest I discover the tricks she&#8217;s using to manipulate me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nate Oman</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123623</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Oman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123623</guid>
		<description>Jonathan: As to gender, while I think that much of it is socially constructed, I think that we are gravely mistaken if we think that biology has nothing to do with human habits and behaviors.  Sorting out what is what is difficult, complicated, dangerous, and no-doubt in many cases impossible.  Yet is precisely this fact that makes the reliance on &quot;social construction&quot; so grating to me.  It obscures at least as much as it reveals...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan: As to gender, while I think that much of it is socially constructed, I think that we are gravely mistaken if we think that biology has nothing to do with human habits and behaviors.  Sorting out what is what is difficult, complicated, dangerous, and no-doubt in many cases impossible.  Yet is precisely this fact that makes the reliance on &#8220;social construction&#8221; so grating to me.  It obscures at least as much as it reveals&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Green</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123596</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123596</guid>
		<description>Adam, essentialism in the field of gender is roughly equivalent to the belief that biology is destiny. Some silly people object to the fact that only women can bear offspring. Some not-silly people object to the fact that educational and professional accomplishment in women is devalued, or women&#039;s access to the same obstructed, because they can bear offspring. There can be equally damaging effects for men as well if they fail to conform to stereotypes. Essentialism can be an element of racial prejudice as well, where it takes the form &quot;All people of type X have the quality Y, and so therefore they should all Z.&quot; 
I&#039;d guess the popular consciousness tends to operate around or slightly below the level of a first-year undergrad. If social construction is filtering into the popular consciousness, that&#039;s progress.

Nate, one advantage of the statement &quot;gender roles are socially constructed&quot; is that it is true. For someone emerging from a &quot;Fascinating Womanhood&quot; world, the discovery that faux-macho masculinity and fragile blossom womanhood are not foreordained behaviors can be fresh and new and exciting. Yes, it can be taken to silly excess, but it also allows the important questions to be asked in the first place. The family and much else that we believe in are social constructions, but they have very good reasons to be constructed as they are, and it&#039;s a useful step to be able to enumerate and defend those reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, essentialism in the field of gender is roughly equivalent to the belief that biology is destiny. Some silly people object to the fact that only women can bear offspring. Some not-silly people object to the fact that educational and professional accomplishment in women is devalued, or women&#8217;s access to the same obstructed, because they can bear offspring. There can be equally damaging effects for men as well if they fail to conform to stereotypes. Essentialism can be an element of racial prejudice as well, where it takes the form &#8220;All people of type X have the quality Y, and so therefore they should all Z.&#8221;<br />
I&#8217;d guess the popular consciousness tends to operate around or slightly below the level of a first-year undergrad. If social construction is filtering into the popular consciousness, that&#8217;s progress.</p>
<p>Nate, one advantage of the statement &#8220;gender roles are socially constructed&#8221; is that it is true. For someone emerging from a &#8220;Fascinating Womanhood&#8221; world, the discovery that faux-macho masculinity and fragile blossom womanhood are not foreordained behaviors can be fresh and new and exciting. Yes, it can be taken to silly excess, but it also allows the important questions to be asked in the first place. The family and much else that we believe in are social constructions, but they have very good reasons to be constructed as they are, and it&#8217;s a useful step to be able to enumerate and defend those reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123586</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123586</guid>
		<description>&quot;The second implication is that which is socially constructed can be reconstructed along lines of our choosing.

Does anyoneâ€“outside of first-year undergradsâ€“really take this claim seriously?&quot;

Maybe Nate is primarily talking about philosophers and such, in which case Jim F.&#039;s point holds, but I think social construction=illegitimate has worked its way into the popular consciousness.  I&#039;ve encountered the idea more often than I can say, and I hardly ever consort with philosophers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The second implication is that which is socially constructed can be reconstructed along lines of our choosing.</p>
<p>Does anyoneâ€“outside of first-year undergradsâ€“really take this claim seriously?&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe Nate is primarily talking about philosophers and such, in which case Jim F.&#8217;s point holds, but I think social construction=illegitimate has worked its way into the popular consciousness.  I&#8217;ve encountered the idea more often than I can say, and I hardly ever consort with philosophers.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123585</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123585</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is the monstrous belief that traits or social arrangements reflected unchanging essences.&quot;

&quot;essentialism, a sin that is committed for less often than most assume.&quot;

So, what is essentialism, exactly, and why is it sin?  I am confused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is the monstrous belief that traits or social arrangements reflected unchanging essences.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;essentialism, a sin that is committed for less often than most assume.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, what is essentialism, exactly, and why is it sin?  I am confused.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate Oman</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123584</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Oman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123584</guid>
		<description>That is about right.  In particular, stading alone I don&#039;t think it is particularlly powerful normative concept one way or another.  Furthermore, the mistaken belief that it is leads many to assume -- incorrectly -- that those who disagree with them are falling into some sort of essentialism, a sin that is committed for less often than most assume.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is about right.  In particular, stading alone I don&#8217;t think it is particularlly powerful normative concept one way or another.  Furthermore, the mistaken belief that it is leads many to assume &#8212; incorrectly &#8212; that those who disagree with them are falling into some sort of essentialism, a sin that is committed for less often than most assume.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123555</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 05:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123555</guid>
		<description>Nate,
I&#039;m having a little trouble sorting through this trail (and it may well be my interest span not the qualify of the conversation. . . .). Is this where you are? Social construction may well be a useful way for looking at life and history. But, alas, it has been used in stupid ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate,<br />
I&#8217;m having a little trouble sorting through this trail (and it may well be my interest span not the qualify of the conversation. . . .). Is this where you are? Social construction may well be a useful way for looking at life and history. But, alas, it has been used in stupid ways.</p>
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		<title>By: jinnmabe</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/03/but-thats-just-socially-constructed/#comment-123457</link>
		<dc:creator>jinnmabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2969#comment-123457</guid>
		<description>Congrats, Nate on your William and Mary Law School appointment. Does this mean less bloggernacle participation? Or more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congrats, Nate on your William and Mary Law School appointment. Does this mean less bloggernacle participation? Or more?</p>
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