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	<title>Comments on: A French parliamentary commission says ixnay to marriagegay</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-122151</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-122151</guid>
		<description>Julie Johnson: minor correction: her name is &quot;Sylviane Agacinski.&quot; She is an important thinker in contemporary France. Her latest book, &lt;i&gt;The Metaphysics of the Sexes&lt;/i&gt;, is part of the discussion of Christianity in France today, a discussion that is central to much of what is going on. Agacinski, however, argues against Badiou&#039;s claim that the notion of universalism comes from Paul. She has certainly read and discussed Kierkegaard, but Freud is also an important element of her backgrouin (as he is for most contemporary French thinkers) . Benjamn is also important to her. 

However, though Agacinski is an important contemporary thinker, I don&#039;t think she has been any more influential on this commission and its thinking than anyone else. I&#039;m fairly sure that the Dutch and Belgian thinkers who made a similar argument weren&#039;t doing so under her influence. Perhaps the French commission was, but they could also have been influenced by any number of other thinkers who take Freud seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julie Johnson: minor correction: her name is &#8220;Sylviane Agacinski.&#8221; She is an important thinker in contemporary France. Her latest book, <i>The Metaphysics of the Sexes</i>, is part of the discussion of Christianity in France today, a discussion that is central to much of what is going on. Agacinski, however, argues against Badiou&#8217;s claim that the notion of universalism comes from Paul. She has certainly read and discussed Kierkegaard, but Freud is also an important element of her backgrouin (as he is for most contemporary French thinkers) . Benjamn is also important to her. </p>
<p>However, though Agacinski is an important contemporary thinker, I don&#8217;t think she has been any more influential on this commission and its thinking than anyone else. I&#8217;m fairly sure that the Dutch and Belgian thinkers who made a similar argument weren&#8217;t doing so under her influence. Perhaps the French commission was, but they could also have been influenced by any number of other thinkers who take Freud seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Johnson</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-122141</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-122141</guid>
		<description>I think this French political movement has much to do with Sylvia Agasinski - a feminist philosopher. She wrote a book called Parity of the Sexes and her fundamental argument rests on the concept that because humans come from a biological male and female union, children&#039;s heritage must include the right to parents of two different sexes. Her initial work (in the late 80&#039;s) was mostly on Soren Kierkegaard. She is actually married to Lionel Jospin, the former Prime Minister of France.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this French political movement has much to do with Sylvia Agasinski &#8211; a feminist philosopher. She wrote a book called Parity of the Sexes and her fundamental argument rests on the concept that because humans come from a biological male and female union, children&#8217;s heritage must include the right to parents of two different sexes. Her initial work (in the late 80&#8242;s) was mostly on Soren Kierkegaard. She is actually married to Lionel Jospin, the former Prime Minister of France.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121649</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121649</guid>
		<description>I love having support when it comes from an unexpected quarter! 

However, if all of those gendarmes with machine guns everywhere I looked weren&#039;t evidence of a demand for law and order, I don&#039;t know what would be. But I agree about women in politics: I would be more surprised if a woman became president of France than if one became president of the U.S.--and I would be surprised in either case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love having support when it comes from an unexpected quarter! </p>
<p>However, if all of those gendarmes with machine guns everywhere I looked weren&#8217;t evidence of a demand for law and order, I don&#8217;t know what would be. But I agree about women in politics: I would be more surprised if a woman became president of France than if one became president of the U.S.&#8211;and I would be surprised in either case.</p>
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		<title>By: FrenchExpat</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121603</link>
		<dc:creator>FrenchExpat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121603</guid>
		<description>As a gay Frenchman, I have to agree with Jim F. While America is seen as conservative because America has values it holds on to, America also believe that change is good. France has little respect for values or law and order (might have to be because of the French Revolution?) and there is a lot of disrespect and so many demonstartions and strikes over there take place weekly because France most fears change. 

France has traditions, and they don&#039;t like to see another way. There is that woman is the Socialist Party who wants to run for the Presidential Elections. This is impossible for French people to accept a woman as President. Politicians from her own party (the Left who are suposed to be open-minded) said on the news: &quot;Who&#039;s going to look after the kids?&quot; My people are a sexist nation of machos stuck in their traditions and scared of change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a gay Frenchman, I have to agree with Jim F. While America is seen as conservative because America has values it holds on to, America also believe that change is good. France has little respect for values or law and order (might have to be because of the French Revolution?) and there is a lot of disrespect and so many demonstartions and strikes over there take place weekly because France most fears change. </p>
<p>France has traditions, and they don&#8217;t like to see another way. There is that woman is the Socialist Party who wants to run for the Presidential Elections. This is impossible for French people to accept a woman as President. Politicians from her own party (the Left who are suposed to be open-minded) said on the news: &#8220;Who&#8217;s going to look after the kids?&#8221; My people are a sexist nation of machos stuck in their traditions and scared of change.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121546</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121546</guid>
		<description>I know next to nothing (or less) about the French legal systemn. However, it is relevant that the French Court of Appeals (which seems roughly comparable to our Supreme Court) has ruled that a lesbian biological mother can share her parental rights with her lesbian partner: http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3226,36-745082@51-745098,0.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know next to nothing (or less) about the French legal systemn. However, it is relevant that the French Court of Appeals (which seems roughly comparable to our Supreme Court) has ruled that a lesbian biological mother can share her parental rights with her lesbian partner: <a href="http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3226,36-745082@51-745098,0.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3226,36-745082@51-745098,0.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Wilfried</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121525</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121525</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the clarification, ed. You&#039;re right and we should not be led too quickly by stats that confirm my statement. Indeed, I discovered that &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?StoryID=20030320-112025-9028r&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comparing crime rates &lt;/a&gt;from different countries is often an exercise in folly. Definitions of offenses differ, even between countries with similar legal codes, which means they are often not directly comparable.&quot;  Moreover, I also recognize that the situation has been changing over recent years. In Europe especially, the opening of communist countries and immigration seem to have a major impact on the crime rates. The problem is that it is politically incorrect to say so in some European countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the clarification, ed. You&#8217;re right and we should not be led too quickly by stats that confirm my statement. Indeed, I discovered that &#8220;<a href="http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?StoryID=20030320-112025-9028r" rel="nofollow">comparing crime rates </a>from different countries is often an exercise in folly. Definitions of offenses differ, even between countries with similar legal codes, which means they are often not directly comparable.&#8221;  Moreover, I also recognize that the situation has been changing over recent years. In Europe especially, the opening of communist countries and immigration seem to have a major impact on the crime rates. The problem is that it is politically incorrect to say so in some European countries.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121522</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121522</guid>
		<description>Wilfried says: &quot;crime rates for murder, rape, robbery, assaultâ€¦ In any of such categories the per ratio U.S. figures are (much) higher than in France.&quot;

This is a bit off topic, but aside from murder rates, I don&#039;t think the evidence supports your statement.  According to data from a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.minjust.nl:8080/b_organ/wodc/publications/08-icvs-h2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1999 international victimization survey&lt;/a&gt;, robbery and assault rates were higher in France than in the U.S.  The difference might even be greater today, since crime rates have been trending down in the USA, and my impression is that they have been rising elsewhere.  International comparisonsn are always tricky, but I haven&#039;t seen any solid evidence that USA crime rates other than murder are much higher than other developed countries...in fact, they often appear to be lower.  (Of course we also have a much more punitive justice system in the US.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilfried says: &#8220;crime rates for murder, rape, robbery, assaultâ€¦ In any of such categories the per ratio U.S. figures are (much) higher than in France.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a bit off topic, but aside from murder rates, I don&#8217;t think the evidence supports your statement.  According to data from a <a href="http://www.minjust.nl:8080/b_organ/wodc/publications/08-icvs-h2.pdf" rel="nofollow">1999 international victimization survey</a>, robbery and assault rates were higher in France than in the U.S.  The difference might even be greater today, since crime rates have been trending down in the USA, and my impression is that they have been rising elsewhere.  International comparisonsn are always tricky, but I haven&#8217;t seen any solid evidence that USA crime rates other than murder are much higher than other developed countries&#8230;in fact, they often appear to be lower.  (Of course we also have a much more punitive justice system in the US.)</p>
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		<title>By: Wilfried</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121518</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121518</guid>
		<description>Matt: &quot;Europeâ€™s reaction to the revelation that Bill Clinton was having sex with college students was different from ours (here Iâ€™m using first person plural as an American, not a Mormon).&quot;

I presume that you mean by this that Americans showed a greater sense of &quot;traditional values&quot; by being scandalized by his behavior and turning the event into a major political battle, while Europeans didn&#039;t seem to care about infidelity. Moral Americans versus immoral Europeans. From the European perspective (as a European, not as a Mormon): &quot;Hey, even a president is still a human being who can be tempted into plain stupid private behavior and tries to talk himself out of it - shame shame shame - and let&#039;s now continue with our full attention to social security, health care, international relations and the needs of the Third World.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt: &#8220;Europeâ€™s reaction to the revelation that Bill Clinton was having sex with college students was different from ours (here Iâ€™m using first person plural as an American, not a Mormon).&#8221;</p>
<p>I presume that you mean by this that Americans showed a greater sense of &#8220;traditional values&#8221; by being scandalized by his behavior and turning the event into a major political battle, while Europeans didn&#8217;t seem to care about infidelity. Moral Americans versus immoral Europeans. From the European perspective (as a European, not as a Mormon): &#8220;Hey, even a president is still a human being who can be tempted into plain stupid private behavior and tries to talk himself out of it &#8211; shame shame shame &#8211; and let&#8217;s now continue with our full attention to social security, health care, international relations and the needs of the Third World.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Evans</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121514</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121514</guid>
		<description>Kristine,

Of course women are used to sell everything here, too, it&#039;s just that in Europe they use women&#039;s &lt;i&gt;bare&lt;/i&gt; breasts to sell mayonaise.  (No joke.  In Spain I saw a television commercial that showed a man in the kitchen grooving his hips to match the movement of his hand spreading mayonnaise on a piece of toast.  Into the kitchen walks his bare breasted girlfriend and they both groove while he holds the mayo-spread bread for her to take a sumptuous bite with a sultry eye.  It made quite an impact on a young missionary used to seeing mayo marketed by moms saying &quot;My kids like BestFoods best!&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristine,</p>
<p>Of course women are used to sell everything here, too, it&#8217;s just that in Europe they use women&#8217;s <i>bare</i> breasts to sell mayonaise.  (No joke.  In Spain I saw a television commercial that showed a man in the kitchen grooving his hips to match the movement of his hand spreading mayonnaise on a piece of toast.  Into the kitchen walks his bare breasted girlfriend and they both groove while he holds the mayo-spread bread for her to take a sumptuous bite with a sultry eye.  It made quite an impact on a young missionary used to seeing mayo marketed by moms saying &#8220;My kids like BestFoods best!&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Kristine Haglund Harris</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/02/a-french-parliamentary-commission-says-ixnay-to-marriagegay/#comment-121509</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristine Haglund Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2942#comment-121509</guid>
		<description>&quot; the womanâ€™s body is used for titillation just the same.&quot;

Well, thank goodness that never happens here!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; the womanâ€™s body is used for titillation just the same.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, thank goodness that never happens here!!</p>
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