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	<title>Comments on: Two Missionaries Shot in Virginia</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: queuno</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-115076</link>
		<dc:creator>queuno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2006 03:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-115076</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t mean to be glib, but ...

I see this as yet another situation where the Lord allowed a bad thing to happen to a couple of good people (by all accounts).  And the net result is that one Elder has received a transfer from Virginia to the Spirit Prison Mission, where he will convert millions.  

Again, I don&#039;t mean to be glib, and I don&#039;t mean to impose a heavy dose of doctrinal reality, but I can&#039;t help but think that the Lord knows his servants, and is watching over them.  It&#039;s incredibly sad and tragic for those still on this Earth, and without a testimony that the Lord pulls certain strings and allows other to be pulled, it&#039;d make you crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t mean to be glib, but &#8230;</p>
<p>I see this as yet another situation where the Lord allowed a bad thing to happen to a couple of good people (by all accounts).  And the net result is that one Elder has received a transfer from Virginia to the Spirit Prison Mission, where he will convert millions.  </p>
<p>Again, I don&#8217;t mean to be glib, and I don&#8217;t mean to impose a heavy dose of doctrinal reality, but I can&#8217;t help but think that the Lord knows his servants, and is watching over them.  It&#8217;s incredibly sad and tragic for those still on this Earth, and without a testimony that the Lord pulls certain strings and allows other to be pulled, it&#8217;d make you crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-115051</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-115051</guid>
		<description>Condolences to the Young family and hope all goes well for Elder Heidbrink in his recovery... Sorry to add to the morbid tone of an event such as this, but was shocked to see on our national tv news broadcast last night news of two elders in the New Zealand Wellington mission who were killed in a vehicle accident... It leaves an emptiness within... my thoughts and prayers to the families of the young men...  They were named on the news last night, but I wasn&#039;t able to focus on the article until after the interview with the mission president... I believe one was from Oregon and the other was brand new to the mission...  

Newspaper link is: www.timaruherald.co.nz, but at that time, they hadn&#039;t named the elders.  One passenger from the other vehicle also killed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Condolences to the Young family and hope all goes well for Elder Heidbrink in his recovery&#8230; Sorry to add to the morbid tone of an event such as this, but was shocked to see on our national tv news broadcast last night news of two elders in the New Zealand Wellington mission who were killed in a vehicle accident&#8230; It leaves an emptiness within&#8230; my thoughts and prayers to the families of the young men&#8230;  They were named on the news last night, but I wasn&#8217;t able to focus on the article until after the interview with the mission president&#8230; I believe one was from Oregon and the other was brand new to the mission&#8230;  </p>
<p>Newspaper link is: <a href="http://www.timaruherald.co.nz" rel="nofollow">http://www.timaruherald.co.nz</a>, but at that time, they hadn&#8217;t named the elders.  One passenger from the other vehicle also killed.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Crowley</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114901</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Crowley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114901</guid>
		<description>As I re-read this thread another thought occurs to me:  it is interesting that there is a lot of discussion about &quot;the work&quot; going forward (which I think is fine) but very little discussion about the truly good news here which is that this Elder will be reunited with his family.  My first reaction to this news was retributive; others first thoughts were relative to the tragedy and others were relative to the work as a whole.  

At my work place three of my colleagues have lost parents in the last year, two of them untimely.  I have been fortunate to approach each of them at an appropriate point and share with them my belief that they will see that loved one again.  To the person, the response was that they thought that was a beautiful sentiment and that they hoped I was right. I share that not to toot my own horn (I will be the first to admit that I don&#039;t share the gospel as I should) but to illustrate that this IS a beautiful doctrine and that in my experience it is recognized as such by members and nonmembers alike.  I think I would say that this is the part of the gospel that is easiest to share for me.

Some one has said that without eternal families all of the other things we do in pursuit if exaltation really aren&#039;t worth it.  I think that is right, or nearly so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I re-read this thread another thought occurs to me:  it is interesting that there is a lot of discussion about &#8220;the work&#8221; going forward (which I think is fine) but very little discussion about the truly good news here which is that this Elder will be reunited with his family.  My first reaction to this news was retributive; others first thoughts were relative to the tragedy and others were relative to the work as a whole.  </p>
<p>At my work place three of my colleagues have lost parents in the last year, two of them untimely.  I have been fortunate to approach each of them at an appropriate point and share with them my belief that they will see that loved one again.  To the person, the response was that they thought that was a beautiful sentiment and that they hoped I was right. I share that not to toot my own horn (I will be the first to admit that I don&#8217;t share the gospel as I should) but to illustrate that this IS a beautiful doctrine and that in my experience it is recognized as such by members and nonmembers alike.  I think I would say that this is the part of the gospel that is easiest to share for me.</p>
<p>Some one has said that without eternal families all of the other things we do in pursuit if exaltation really aren&#8217;t worth it.  I think that is right, or nearly so.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie K</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114871</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114871</guid>
		<description>In a meeting of missionaries in Virginia Beach on Wednesday morning Elder Young&#039;s parents gave the same message. Go forward. 
Do you think Mission President Kirk told them what to think/say to the assembled group, or do you think that might have been their own message, from their own tender, broken, hurting hearts?

We can try to analyze this and make sense of it (the forte of the bloggernacle?), but as for me, I am going to put my trust in God and enjoy the outpouring of the Spirit that has accompanied this tragedy. 

I offer my sincere condolences to the Young family. It could have been my son that was killed, but it was yours. Please know I share your pain and pray that your sorrows and grief will eventually be turned to joy and rejoicing through our Savior Jesus Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a meeting of missionaries in Virginia Beach on Wednesday morning Elder Young&#8217;s parents gave the same message. Go forward.<br />
Do you think Mission President Kirk told them what to think/say to the assembled group, or do you think that might have been their own message, from their own tender, broken, hurting hearts?</p>
<p>We can try to analyze this and make sense of it (the forte of the bloggernacle?), but as for me, I am going to put my trust in God and enjoy the outpouring of the Spirit that has accompanied this tragedy. </p>
<p>I offer my sincere condolences to the Young family. It could have been my son that was killed, but it was yours. Please know I share your pain and pray that your sorrows and grief will eventually be turned to joy and rejoicing through our Savior Jesus Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: manaen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114859</link>
		<dc:creator>manaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 09:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114859</guid>
		<description>annegb, Thx for you comments.  I meant to answer the specific suggestion that mission presidents tell their missionaries to send their families unfelt and empty buzz phrases.  I agree that mission presidents can/do determine whether their missionaries take leave to return home for personal reasons.  FWIW, one of my companion&#039;s estranged father died during his mission, our president would have let him attend the funeral, but my companion decided to forego it.  Maybe he regretted it later -- I don&#039;t know.

I agree that the Church isn&#039;t what&#039;s important here.  But that doesn&#039;t mean Elder Young&#039;s life was empty of meaning.  I guess what I&#039;m reaching for is that his life isn&#039;t separate from the meaning he chose for it and we shouldn&#039;t gut his life of his chosen meaning.  I believe that it would be disrespectful to him to dismiss his efforts to defeat evil when those efforts put him where he was when he was killed by evil.  He stepped up and he paid dearly for it. To say that&#039;s irrelevant diminishes the meaning to which he chose to spend, literally, his life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>annegb, Thx for you comments.  I meant to answer the specific suggestion that mission presidents tell their missionaries to send their families unfelt and empty buzz phrases.  I agree that mission presidents can/do determine whether their missionaries take leave to return home for personal reasons.  FWIW, one of my companion&#8217;s estranged father died during his mission, our president would have let him attend the funeral, but my companion decided to forego it.  Maybe he regretted it later &#8212; I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>I agree that the Church isn&#8217;t what&#8217;s important here.  But that doesn&#8217;t mean Elder Young&#8217;s life was empty of meaning.  I guess what I&#8217;m reaching for is that his life isn&#8217;t separate from the meaning he chose for it and we shouldn&#8217;t gut his life of his chosen meaning.  I believe that it would be disrespectful to him to dismiss his efforts to defeat evil when those efforts put him where he was when he was killed by evil.  He stepped up and he paid dearly for it. To say that&#8217;s irrelevant diminishes the meaning to which he chose to spend, literally, his life.</p>
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		<title>By: annegb</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114846</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114846</guid>
		<description>I have mixed emotions about this.  I think it might be a good thing that Larry made his comment, however inadvertently he meant it.

Manaen, I seldom disagree with you, and I could be wrong, but my impression is that the mission presidents do have a lot of power over their missions.  I know some who have refused to let missionaries go home to funerals of loved ones, which I think is indefensible.  I do not know one, oh, yes, I take it back, I know one, but that&#039;s all, who did not regret that.  Well, criminently, his mother was in her 90&#039;s.   Are you with me?

I think not only should they be ALLOWED to go home when tragedy strikes, I think they should be encouraged to go home.  I just do.  I think if they are not allowed to grieve or be with their families, it leaves a hole in their soul.

To that extent, I agree with Ann.  The church isn&#039;t what&#039;s important about what happened here, it&#039;s the death of this boy/man.  The church is secondary.  But I also agree with those who feel that the missionaries need to be encouraged not to give in to despair, fear, and discouragement at a time like this.  Do I contradict myself?  Very well then.....

I have a resentment, oh well, I&#039;ll share it another time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have mixed emotions about this.  I think it might be a good thing that Larry made his comment, however inadvertently he meant it.</p>
<p>Manaen, I seldom disagree with you, and I could be wrong, but my impression is that the mission presidents do have a lot of power over their missions.  I know some who have refused to let missionaries go home to funerals of loved ones, which I think is indefensible.  I do not know one, oh, yes, I take it back, I know one, but that&#8217;s all, who did not regret that.  Well, criminently, his mother was in her 90&#8242;s.   Are you with me?</p>
<p>I think not only should they be ALLOWED to go home when tragedy strikes, I think they should be encouraged to go home.  I just do.  I think if they are not allowed to grieve or be with their families, it leaves a hole in their soul.</p>
<p>To that extent, I agree with Ann.  The church isn&#8217;t what&#8217;s important about what happened here, it&#8217;s the death of this boy/man.  The church is secondary.  But I also agree with those who feel that the missionaries need to be encouraged not to give in to despair, fear, and discouragement at a time like this.  Do I contradict myself?  Very well then&#8230;..</p>
<p>I have a resentment, oh well, I&#8217;ll share it another time.</p>
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		<title>By: manaen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114832</link>
		<dc:creator>manaen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 06:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114832</guid>
		<description>17
Ann,

We had a missionary killed while I served my mission.  We all knew of other missionary killings from our friends on their missions around the world.  Part of offering our lives to the Lord for two years was the understanding that he might take them entirely.  That&#039;s what a mission is -- and we accepted it.  We would feel somehow that the sacrifice was wasted if the work hadn&#039;t gone forward.

I personally found your comment, &quot;Iâ€™m more inclined to think itâ€™s what the mission president told the missionaries to tell their families, so thatâ€™s what theyâ€™re doing&quot; to be remarkably removed from the reality of a mission.  Mission presidents don&#039;t tell their missionaries propaganda to propagate to their families.  They do encourage them in the totality of the mission: leaving home, enduring rejection, finding their own answers, leading others to the healing atonement, and becoming disciples of Christ through this struggle. &quot;The work goes forward&quot; to me is a statement that the missionary saying it has remained unshaken in his willingness to sacrifice whatever the Lord asks.

&quot;this young man dying really isnâ€™t about missionary work. Itâ€™s about a young man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time being killed in a senseless crime. Taking this sad story and turning the focus to missionary work seemsâ€¦disrespectful, somehow&quot; also seems to me to miss the context of what happened.  Missionary work is exactly about the causes of senseless crimes like this (and all other sins).  Here we see the opposition between them and in this case, evil had a temporary victory.  But it was to confront evil that Elder Young, and all missionaries, served.  I agree that the physical confrontation that accompanied the spiritual one is tragic, but missionary work is the essence of what we see: evil needing remedy -- which remedy is embodied in the missionaries.  So I disagree with your comment: I believe that to turn the focus *away* from Elder Young&#039;s quest to remedy the evil that took his life would be disrespectful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>17<br />
Ann,</p>
<p>We had a missionary killed while I served my mission.  We all knew of other missionary killings from our friends on their missions around the world.  Part of offering our lives to the Lord for two years was the understanding that he might take them entirely.  That&#8217;s what a mission is &#8212; and we accepted it.  We would feel somehow that the sacrifice was wasted if the work hadn&#8217;t gone forward.</p>
<p>I personally found your comment, &#8220;Iâ€™m more inclined to think itâ€™s what the mission president told the missionaries to tell their families, so thatâ€™s what theyâ€™re doing&#8221; to be remarkably removed from the reality of a mission.  Mission presidents don&#8217;t tell their missionaries propaganda to propagate to their families.  They do encourage them in the totality of the mission: leaving home, enduring rejection, finding their own answers, leading others to the healing atonement, and becoming disciples of Christ through this struggle. &#8220;The work goes forward&#8221; to me is a statement that the missionary saying it has remained unshaken in his willingness to sacrifice whatever the Lord asks.</p>
<p>&#8220;this young man dying really isnâ€™t about missionary work. Itâ€™s about a young man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time being killed in a senseless crime. Taking this sad story and turning the focus to missionary work seemsâ€¦disrespectful, somehow&#8221; also seems to me to miss the context of what happened.  Missionary work is exactly about the causes of senseless crimes like this (and all other sins).  Here we see the opposition between them and in this case, evil had a temporary victory.  But it was to confront evil that Elder Young, and all missionaries, served.  I agree that the physical confrontation that accompanied the spiritual one is tragic, but missionary work is the essence of what we see: evil needing remedy &#8212; which remedy is embodied in the missionaries.  So I disagree with your comment: I believe that to turn the focus *away* from Elder Young&#8217;s quest to remedy the evil that took his life would be disrespectful.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114825</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 03:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114825</guid>
		<description>John #18, I disagree.  It&#039;s not surprising to me, though.  That&#039;s what missionaries are supposed to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John #18, I disagree.  It&#8217;s not surprising to me, though.  That&#8217;s what missionaries are supposed to do.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kane</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114824</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 03:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114824</guid>
		<description>Saying the work was going forward hardly seemed like it was turning the focus away from what happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saying the work was going forward hardly seemed like it was turning the focus away from what happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/01/two-missionaries-shot-in-virginia/#comment-114823</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2006 03:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2822#comment-114823</guid>
		<description>The only problem I have with the phrase &quot;the work going forward&quot; is that it&#039;s such a platitude.  Is that phrase supposed to inspire hope or encouragement or courage or faith?  I&#039;m more inclined to think it&#039;s what the mission president told the missionaries to tell their families, so that&#039;s what they&#039;re doing.  

That &quot;the work is going forward&quot; doesn&#039;t make Elder Young&#039;s death any less a terrible loss for his family and friends.  It&#039;s not the mission&#039;s fault he died, of course.  But this young man dying really isn&#039;t about missionary work.  It&#039;s about a young man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time being killed in a senseless crime.  Taking this sad story and turning the focus to missionary work seems...disrespectful, somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only problem I have with the phrase &#8220;the work going forward&#8221; is that it&#8217;s such a platitude.  Is that phrase supposed to inspire hope or encouragement or courage or faith?  I&#8217;m more inclined to think it&#8217;s what the mission president told the missionaries to tell their families, so that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re doing.  </p>
<p>That &#8220;the work is going forward&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make Elder Young&#8217;s death any less a terrible loss for his family and friends.  It&#8217;s not the mission&#8217;s fault he died, of course.  But this young man dying really isn&#8217;t about missionary work.  It&#8217;s about a young man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time being killed in a senseless crime.  Taking this sad story and turning the focus to missionary work seems&#8230;disrespectful, somehow.</p>
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