Comments on: The Fellowship of the Plates http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/ Truth Will Prevail Thu, 24 May 2012 04:49:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Kingsley http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112498 Kingsley Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:02:40 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112498 Another cool scene would be where Joseph goes innocently to Oliver to ask him something and the next thing you know they are using the priesthood to fling each other into walls and spin each other round and round because Oliver has apostatized. Or all these evil, black-robed Jesuits are chasing Joseph and finally he is pushed into a corner and you are afraid because what is going to happen and then Joseph throws a torch at the nearest menacing Jesuit and, happily, he has been previously soaked in kerosene because he instantly bursts into flame and falls down the hill. And all the other Jesuits suffer from a similar malady of combustible robes. And the scene where John Taylor slides down the elephant's trunk. And Porter Rockwell can't see over the wall. That would be so cool. Another cool scene would be where Joseph goes innocently to Oliver to ask him something and the next thing you know they are using the priesthood to fling each other into walls and spin each other round and round because Oliver has apostatized. Or all these evil, black-robed Jesuits are chasing Joseph and finally he is pushed into a corner and you are afraid because what is going to happen and then Joseph throws a torch at the nearest menacing Jesuit and, happily, he has been previously soaked in kerosene because he instantly bursts into flame and falls down the hill. And all the other Jesuits suffer from a similar malady of combustible robes. And the scene where John Taylor slides down the elephant’s trunk. And Porter Rockwell can’t see over the wall. That would be so cool.

]]> By: Kaimi Wenger http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112473 Kaimi Wenger Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:24:51 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112473 Great comments, all. Space Chick, good point on how movies can emphasize points that we might otherwise have missed. Elisabeth, I didn't intend for my kids to see LoTR. But it turns out that kids sometimes decide on their own what they're going to see. Danithew, agreed -- the movies might give my kids a better appreciation of the Book of Mormon. Kingsley 23 -- that would be a cool movie. I particularly look forward to the part when Joseph Smith and Lilburn Boggs go at it in a show-stopping lightsaber duel. Great comments, all.

Space Chick, good point on how movies can emphasize points that we might otherwise have missed.

Elisabeth, I didn’t intend for my kids to see LoTR. But it turns out that kids sometimes decide on their own what they’re going to see.

Danithew, agreed — the movies might give my kids a better appreciation of the Book of Mormon.

Kingsley 23 — that would be a cool movie. I particularly look forward to the part when Joseph Smith and Lilburn Boggs go at it in a show-stopping lightsaber duel.

]]> By: D. Fletcher http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112472 D. Fletcher Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:18:14 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112472 Sorry, Kingsley, I don't have a copy of that piece. The article was valueless, anyway, I think. Sorry, Kingsley, I don’t have a copy of that piece. The article was valueless, anyway, I think.

]]> By: Tatiana http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112471 Tatiana Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:04:20 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112471 Elisabeth, I'm passionate about LotR (the books) and since this is the first Tolkien thread I've seen on the bloggernacle, I couldn't resist posting here. :-) I think LotR is too violent for some children but not for others. One niece of mine got nightmares if she ever read or watched anything scary or violent. The American Girls books about the girl (Addie?) whose family escaped slavery were too terribly disturbing for her when she was 10 or 11, and they were very toned down compared to real life. On the other hand my other niece adored anything scary and wass never disturbed by any of it. She told me that there were Vampires in Pleasant Grove (a suburb near her) and flat overruled my statement that Vampires didn't exist. She told me her grandfather had seen them. :-) One nephew loved anything violent and so we read Shakespeare to him when he was 2 and 3 years old, and he was so so into it. "Him put poison in him's ear!" I remember him saying to me with keen fascination. He wanted to be a Viking when he grew up, cause they had such cool hats and cool ships and they went around slaughtering and pillaging and all that fun stuff. Now he's grown up and an officer in the Queen's army (he's British) so I guess it worked out well for him. :-) Anyway, I suppose that it varies from child to child, how violent or scary stories affect them. Because I see almost no tv and few movies, I'm not desensitized at all myself to vivid or frightening images. For a week after I saw the first LotR movie, I kept catching glimpses out of the corner of my eye of Black Riders waiting in dark places to get me. :-) I'm probably not old enough yet to be watching stuff like that. Elisabeth, I’m passionate about LotR (the books) and since this is the first Tolkien thread I’ve seen on the bloggernacle, I couldn’t resist posting here. :-)

I think LotR is too violent for some children but not for others. One niece of mine got nightmares if she ever read or watched anything scary or violent. The American Girls books about the girl (Addie?) whose family escaped slavery were too terribly disturbing for her when she was 10 or 11, and they were very toned down compared to real life. On the other hand my other niece adored anything scary and wass never disturbed by any of it. She told me that there were Vampires in Pleasant Grove (a suburb near her) and flat overruled my statement that Vampires didn’t exist. She told me her grandfather had seen them. :-)

One nephew loved anything violent and so we read Shakespeare to him when he was 2 and 3 years old, and he was so so into it. “Him put poison in him’s ear!” I remember him saying to me with keen fascination. He wanted to be a Viking when he grew up, cause they had such cool hats and cool ships and they went around slaughtering and pillaging and all that fun stuff. Now he’s grown up and an officer in the Queen’s army (he’s British) so I guess it worked out well for him. :-)

Anyway, I suppose that it varies from child to child, how violent or scary stories affect them. Because I see almost no tv and few movies, I’m not desensitized at all myself to vivid or frightening images. For a week after I saw the first LotR movie, I kept catching glimpses out of the corner of my eye of Black Riders waiting in dark places to get me. :-) I’m probably not old enough yet to be watching stuff like that.

]]> By: Kingsley http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112468 Kingsley Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:49:28 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112468 Re 24; do you have a copy of the article lying around? That sounds like a very interesting project. Tolkien's complicated book emerged after years of schooling, thought, conversation, study, and the most grueling labor, and has this enormous paper trail behind it, whereas Joseph's was born in a couple of months seemingly out of the blue. It'd be really fun to do a sort of side-by-side analysis of the books, and I'd love to read yours. Re 24; do you have a copy of the article lying around? That sounds like a very interesting project. Tolkien’s complicated book emerged after years of schooling, thought, conversation, study, and the most grueling labor, and has this enormous paper trail behind it, whereas Joseph’s was born in a couple of months seemingly out of the blue. It’d be really fun to do a sort of side-by-side analysis of the books, and I’d love to read yours.

]]> By: D. Fletcher http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112464 D. Fletcher Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:25:35 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112464 I actually collaborated on an article in Sunstone, 27 years go, comparing Lord of the Rings to the Book of Mormon. One conclusion we made was that these works *are* comparable, in terms of their comprehensiveness in presenting an entire unknown world's history, geneology and sociology, and this particular comparative analysis scared me half to death. I knew, from then on, I would have to pay attention to the Book's spiritual messages, and ignore anything that seemed dramatic or exciting, because of the implication that it might have been created purposely to excite. I actually collaborated on an article in Sunstone, 27 years go, comparing Lord of the Rings to the Book of Mormon. One conclusion we made was that these works *are* comparable, in terms of their comprehensiveness in presenting an entire unknown world’s history, geneology and sociology, and this particular comparative analysis scared me half to death. I knew, from then on, I would have to pay attention to the Book’s spiritual messages, and ignore anything that seemed dramatic or exciting, because of the implication that it might have been created purposely to excite.

]]> By: Kingsley http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112463 Kingsley Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:11:43 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112463 True, D. Fletcher, true. Or <i>anything</i> having to do for the Church for that matter. Jackson's logic is, Golly, if a <i>hundred</i> men with blackened faces charged Carthage to kill Joseph Smith, how much cooler would it be to have -- <i>one hundred thousand</i>! And if Joseph fired a little peashooter down the stairs at some of them, how much cooler would it be to give him -- a blunderbuss! And, in the death scene with Hyrum, you could have him light himself on fire and then somehow charge a quarter of a mile to the nearest precipice and hurl himself over it into the masses and masses of howling orcs below. <i>Sweet</i>. True, D. Fletcher, true. Or anything having to do for the Church for that matter. Jackson’s logic is, Golly, if a hundred men with blackened faces charged Carthage to kill Joseph Smith, how much cooler would it be to have — one hundred thousand! And if Joseph fired a little peashooter down the stairs at some of them, how much cooler would it be to give him — a blunderbuss! And, in the death scene with Hyrum, you could have him light himself on fire and then somehow charge a quarter of a mile to the nearest precipice and hurl himself over it into the masses and masses of howling orcs below. Sweet.

]]> By: D. Fletcher http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112460 D. Fletcher Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:57:48 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112460 I'd be quite careful relating the Book of Mormon to Lord of the Rings, which was fiction, after all. How would we feel if Peter Jackson made movies out of the Book, changing stuff all around for creative purpose, adding elves and orcs at will? I think we might be quite horrified. I’d be quite careful relating the Book of Mormon to Lord of the Rings, which was fiction, after all. How would we feel if Peter Jackson made movies out of the Book, changing stuff all around for creative purpose, adding elves and orcs at will? I think we might be quite horrified.

]]> By: Kingsley http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112425 Kingsley Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:14:25 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112425 Problem is, bloodlust of this magnitude leads to these little absurdities where, for example, you have to come up with a reason for Boromir’s death that isn’t the simple and realistic one (i.e. Tolkien’s) of being overwhelmed by numbers. So what do you do? <i>You give one orc out of the entire bleeping army a bow and a quiver of arrows so that he can take potshots at poor Boromir while he’s busy knocking off dozens of bad guys</i>. If only Saruman had supplied a couple more of his monsters with bows and arrows – the whole Fellowship would have perished! Problem is, bloodlust of this magnitude leads to these little absurdities where, for example, you have to come up with a reason for Boromir’s death that isn’t the simple and realistic one (i.e. Tolkien’s) of being overwhelmed by numbers. So what do you do? You give one orc out of the entire bleeping army a bow and a quiver of arrows so that he can take potshots at poor Boromir while he’s busy knocking off dozens of bad guys. If only Saruman had supplied a couple more of his monsters with bows and arrows – the whole Fellowship would have perished!

]]> By: Kingsley http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/12/the-fellowship-of-the-plates/#comment-112423 Kingsley Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:52:03 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2772#comment-112423 Lyle: Tolkien revolves in his grave. Fantasy, according to him, most definitely does not mean fake. He created an imagined world, yes, but one where the law of gravity still applies. Go read his description of the little skirmish in Moria again. A few orcs get through the door, that's all, and the biggest fellow gets past the best efforts of both Aragorn and Boromir before plunging a spear into Frodo. Tolkien <i>never</i> indulges in these preposterous, masturbatory scenes of D&Desque gore and mayhem where a few intrepid warriors with magical weapons take on entire armies by themselves. That's pure Peter Jackson. Lyle: Tolkien revolves in his grave. Fantasy, according to him, most definitely does not mean fake. He created an imagined world, yes, but one where the law of gravity still applies. Go read his description of the little skirmish in Moria again. A few orcs get through the door, that’s all, and the biggest fellow gets past the best efforts of both Aragorn and Boromir before plunging a spear into Frodo. Tolkien never indulges in these preposterous, masturbatory scenes of D&Desque gore and mayhem where a few intrepid warriors with magical weapons take on entire armies by themselves. That’s pure Peter Jackson.

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