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	<title>Comments on: Time for a Link War</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Owens</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-66252</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Owens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-66252</guid>
		<description>You might also try putting up some links and information on Wikipedia.org: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Temple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might also try putting up some links and information on Wikipedia.org: See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Temple" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Temple</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Benyamin Abrams</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-62195</link>
		<dc:creator>Benyamin Abrams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-62195</guid>
		<description>Dear Bloggers;

I don’t know if this could be a new subject; but I was thinking of this while I was reading the Mormon/Google comments.

Words are defined by their use by the public or the public&#039;s interpretation of the meaning of the word.  In the late 1800’s, I would be proud to be gay.  

Ten years ago, I moved from Washington, D.C. area to southwest Missouri.  I live in Carthage, Missouri.  It is a small town of 15,000.  After being here a short time, I was amazed at the ignorant and basically stupid beliefs that my neighbors had/have about the Church.

A member of the Miami Oklahoma Ward (our Stake has units in three states) told me about a comment that his best fishing buddy made recently.  His friend told him that he no longer believes what his preacher tells him about Mormons.  There is no way that the preacher’s comments (definition) of Mormon and Mormonism fits the actions of this member.

Besides, I am amazed at the lack of knowledge and attention by the members of my Ward on their neighbors.  On Sunday, my wife and I take walks about the neighborhood.  After seven wonderful years of marriage to me, she is accustom and knows that if I see someone that I will stop and talk to them.  

I am not doing this to brag.  I know all the people on our block and several blocks around our house.  My immediate neighbors throw dead the branches in their yard to my burn pile.  With another member, I have given Priesthood blessings to two neighbors and one of them was a preacher.  I have given a non-member and two inactive members subscriptions of the Ensign for many years. Though my wife and my health are not always great, we have had neighbors for dinner or just a dessert.

I am not suggesting that this will solve the Google problem.  I am just saying that members of the Church can do a lot more to change the definition of “Mormon” by their positive interaction with non-members and inactive members.

In teaching Elder’s Quorum, I try to define words by replacing them with other words.   For the lesson on debt and financial responsibility, I replaced the word “interest” with “the cost of money.”  A lot of the brethren including one with a business told me that now he looks at interest in an entirely different matter when he thinks of it as “the cost of money.”

My step-son recently received his call to the Recife, Brasil mission.  A year or more prior to his calling, I had been talking to almost everyone including grocery clerks about his going on a mission.  Constantly, I would receive the reply, “Where is he going?”  I would explain the process.  I could mention it again a couple of months later and receive the same reply.  I have been in sales and know that people normally remember only 10% of what you say.

Frustrated, I tried a different line.  Austin is waiting for his mission call.  This is understandable.  He wants to go on a Mission.  He doesn’t know where he going because he hasn’t received his Mission Call. 

I have noticed that too many members of the Church have a scripted position, talk, reply, attitude etc. when they are dealing with non-members and inactive members.  Besides, members hold certain biases about non-members and inactive members.

I enjoyed the comments about Mormon bad in Europe but good in Japan. Sometimes we need to use our hearts, minds and intellect.

Anyway thanks for allowing the meanderings of an old man.

Sincerely;
Benyamin Abrams</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bloggers;</p>
<p>I don’t know if this could be a new subject; but I was thinking of this while I was reading the Mormon/Google comments.</p>
<p>Words are defined by their use by the public or the public&#8217;s interpretation of the meaning of the word.  In the late 1800’s, I would be proud to be gay.  </p>
<p>Ten years ago, I moved from Washington, D.C. area to southwest Missouri.  I live in Carthage, Missouri.  It is a small town of 15,000.  After being here a short time, I was amazed at the ignorant and basically stupid beliefs that my neighbors had/have about the Church.</p>
<p>A member of the Miami Oklahoma Ward (our Stake has units in three states) told me about a comment that his best fishing buddy made recently.  His friend told him that he no longer believes what his preacher tells him about Mormons.  There is no way that the preacher’s comments (definition) of Mormon and Mormonism fits the actions of this member.</p>
<p>Besides, I am amazed at the lack of knowledge and attention by the members of my Ward on their neighbors.  On Sunday, my wife and I take walks about the neighborhood.  After seven wonderful years of marriage to me, she is accustom and knows that if I see someone that I will stop and talk to them.  </p>
<p>I am not doing this to brag.  I know all the people on our block and several blocks around our house.  My immediate neighbors throw dead the branches in their yard to my burn pile.  With another member, I have given Priesthood blessings to two neighbors and one of them was a preacher.  I have given a non-member and two inactive members subscriptions of the Ensign for many years. Though my wife and my health are not always great, we have had neighbors for dinner or just a dessert.</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that this will solve the Google problem.  I am just saying that members of the Church can do a lot more to change the definition of “Mormon” by their positive interaction with non-members and inactive members.</p>
<p>In teaching Elder’s Quorum, I try to define words by replacing them with other words.   For the lesson on debt and financial responsibility, I replaced the word “interest” with “the cost of money.”  A lot of the brethren including one with a business told me that now he looks at interest in an entirely different matter when he thinks of it as “the cost of money.”</p>
<p>My step-son recently received his call to the Recife, Brasil mission.  A year or more prior to his calling, I had been talking to almost everyone including grocery clerks about his going on a mission.  Constantly, I would receive the reply, “Where is he going?”  I would explain the process.  I could mention it again a couple of months later and receive the same reply.  I have been in sales and know that people normally remember only 10% of what you say.</p>
<p>Frustrated, I tried a different line.  Austin is waiting for his mission call.  This is understandable.  He wants to go on a Mission.  He doesn’t know where he going because he hasn’t received his Mission Call. </p>
<p>I have noticed that too many members of the Church have a scripted position, talk, reply, attitude etc. when they are dealing with non-members and inactive members.  Besides, members hold certain biases about non-members and inactive members.</p>
<p>I enjoyed the comments about Mormon bad in Europe but good in Japan. Sometimes we need to use our hearts, minds and intellect.</p>
<p>Anyway thanks for allowing the meanderings of an old man.</p>
<p>Sincerely;<br />
Benyamin Abrams</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-62058</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-62058</guid>
		<description>Oops - I meant to show the HTML code for my Mormon temple link. Here is the code to add a title to the &quot;Mormon temple&quot; link:

a href=&quot;http://www.mormon.org/temples&quot; target=&quot;window&quot; title=&quot;Mormon temple, Mormon temples, LDS temple&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8211; I meant to show the HTML code for my Mormon temple link. Here is the code to add a title to the &#8220;Mormon temple&#8221; link:</p>
<p>a href=&#8221;http://www.mormon.org/temples&#8221; target=&#8221;window&#8221; title=&#8221;Mormon temple, Mormon temples, LDS temple&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-62057</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-62057</guid>
		<description>In creating links, you can further influence search engine results by using the &quot;title&quot; parameter in the link. For example, here is a link I just added to my template at Mormanity: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mormon.org/temples&quot; target=&quot;window&quot; title=&quot;Mormon temple, Mormon temples, LDS temple&quot;&gt;Mormon Temple&lt;/a&gt;. The title section controls the text that is displayed when the cursor is over the link, and provides additional information that influences many search engine rankings. It&#039;s a good idea to add title information - and it&#039;s a good way to add other key words without making a link very wordy. 

For what&#039;s it worth, I&#039;d like to point out that the first pro-LDS Website listed in the top 10 Google results for &quot;Mormon temples&quot; or &quot;Temples Mormon&quot; happens to be one of my LDSFAQ pages, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_masons.shtml&quot;&gt; http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_masons.shtml&lt;/a&gt; dealing with questions about temples and Masonry. In addition to adding links to the mormon.org site using &quot;Mormon temple&quot; as a term in the link, I&#039;ll also add some using &quot;Mormon temple.&quot;

Anyway, thanks, Kaimi, for raising our awareness about this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In creating links, you can further influence search engine results by using the &#8220;title&#8221; parameter in the link. For example, here is a link I just added to my template at Mormanity: <a href="http://www.mormon.org/temples" target="window" title="Mormon temple, Mormon temples, LDS temple">Mormon Temple</a>. The title section controls the text that is displayed when the cursor is over the link, and provides additional information that influences many search engine rankings. It&#8217;s a good idea to add title information &#8211; and it&#8217;s a good way to add other key words without making a link very wordy. </p>
<p>For what&#8217;s it worth, I&#8217;d like to point out that the first pro-LDS Website listed in the top 10 Google results for &#8220;Mormon temples&#8221; or &#8220;Temples Mormon&#8221; happens to be one of my LDSFAQ pages, <a href="http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_masons.shtml"> </a><a href="http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_masons.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_masons.shtml</a> dealing with questions about temples and Masonry. In addition to adding links to the mormon.org site using &#8220;Mormon temple&#8221; as a term in the link, I&#8217;ll also add some using &#8220;Mormon temple.&#8221;</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks, Kaimi, for raising our awareness about this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Latter-day Saint Liberation Front</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-61219</link>
		<dc:creator>Latter-day Saint Liberation Front</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-61219</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Google War&lt;/strong&gt;
Kaimi Wenger at Times and Seasons has declared a link war to save the term Mormon temple from ex-mormon websites.  The guerilla insurgency is proud to join in this effort.  From now on, we will be careful to include a link to the appropriate Mormon tem...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Google War</strong><br />
Kaimi Wenger at Times and Seasons has declared a link war to save the term Mormon temple from ex-mormon websites.  The guerilla insurgency is proud to join in this effort.  From now on, we will be careful to include a link to the appropriate Mormon tem&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Renee C</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-61213</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-61213</guid>
		<description>I happened over here from seeing A Soft Answer&#039;s link to this post.  

&gt;&quot;The M-word should be considered tantamount to the N-word, in my opinion, because that is how it is used by people not of our faith.&quot;

Well, guess who took the N-word back, sir.  The people it was used negatively against.  They don&#039;t let others define it for them anymore.   

How dare anyone let someone else define what the word Mormon means.  Mormon was a man and a rather good one at that.  The word Christian is getting a VERY bad reputation around the world and in our own country.  The very word turns many people off.   By the analogy above, it should be abandoned because of how it is used by many not of the Christian faith.  

IMO, that would be way off base.  I&#039;m not ashamed of Christ. I&#039;m not ashamed of Mormon, either.  And if people call us Mormons with disdain, that&#039;s their problem - a problem which I&#039;m sure was far worse 150 years ago.   My responsibility is, if I choose to be part of the groups considered Mormon and Christian, to live a life that exemplifies the principles Christ taught, regardless of what book those teachings came out of.   I will not be ashamed of either moniker.

I was raised a Lutheran but I don&#039;t recall anyone ever accusing me of worshipping Martin Luther.  If they had (and maybe this happened in the 15-1600s, I don&#039;t know), I would have explained to them who Martin Luther was.

There are members who cringe and change the subject when polygamy is brought up. If someone thought polygamy was not ordained of God when it was happening, then I suppose that is a good response. However, if they don&#039;t feel that way, then why run from the topic instead of defending it in the proper context?   Same goes for this &quot;M-word&quot; as many of you are calling it.  If you are not ashamed of Mormon, then don&#039;t be ashamed of being called a Mormon. Just be glad someone&#039;s talking about &quot;Mormons&quot; at all and use the opportunity to educate them on what that means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I happened over here from seeing A Soft Answer&#8217;s link to this post.  </p>
<p>>&#8221;The M-word should be considered tantamount to the N-word, in my opinion, because that is how it is used by people not of our faith.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, guess who took the N-word back, sir.  The people it was used negatively against.  They don&#8217;t let others define it for them anymore.   </p>
<p>How dare anyone let someone else define what the word Mormon means.  Mormon was a man and a rather good one at that.  The word Christian is getting a VERY bad reputation around the world and in our own country.  The very word turns many people off.   By the analogy above, it should be abandoned because of how it is used by many not of the Christian faith.  </p>
<p>IMO, that would be way off base.  I&#8217;m not ashamed of Christ. I&#8217;m not ashamed of Mormon, either.  And if people call us Mormons with disdain, that&#8217;s their problem &#8211; a problem which I&#8217;m sure was far worse 150 years ago.   My responsibility is, if I choose to be part of the groups considered Mormon and Christian, to live a life that exemplifies the principles Christ taught, regardless of what book those teachings came out of.   I will not be ashamed of either moniker.</p>
<p>I was raised a Lutheran but I don&#8217;t recall anyone ever accusing me of worshipping Martin Luther.  If they had (and maybe this happened in the 15-1600s, I don&#8217;t know), I would have explained to them who Martin Luther was.</p>
<p>There are members who cringe and change the subject when polygamy is brought up. If someone thought polygamy was not ordained of God when it was happening, then I suppose that is a good response. However, if they don&#8217;t feel that way, then why run from the topic instead of defending it in the proper context?   Same goes for this &#8220;M-word&#8221; as many of you are calling it.  If you are not ashamed of Mormon, then don&#8217;t be ashamed of being called a Mormon. Just be glad someone&#8217;s talking about &#8220;Mormons&#8221; at all and use the opportunity to educate them on what that means.</p>
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		<title>By: Jettboy</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-61191</link>
		<dc:creator>Jettboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-61191</guid>
		<description>If you type in the search &quot;LDS Temples,&quot; you get a better selection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you type in the search &#8220;LDS Temples,&#8221; you get a better selection.</p>
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		<title>By: Wilfried</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-61167</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-61167</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is obvious the Church is at present struggling with use of the M-words. The tendency was, a number of years ago, to try to get rid of them in favor of the official name with Jesus Christ at the center. However, that official name contains no adjective like Catholic, Lutheran... And you need an adjective to identify so many things. That explains the success of the acronym LDS which got the value of an adjective (LDS missionaries, LDS Social Services, and even, though unwanted but widely used, LDS Church).  

But the next problem was that the M-words continued to be used, mainly by outsiders. With the internet came the issue of anti-Mormon sites using the M-word in their URL&#039;s. Moreover, the media continued to identify as &quot;mormon&quot; other related churches, polygamists, etc. This led the Church to reclaim the M-words as it&#039;s trademark. So now you can read on the official Church website, in a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1,00.html&quot;&gt;reaction&lt;/a&gt; to &quot;mistakes in the news&quot; :  &quot;There is no such thing as a &quot;polygamous&quot; Mormon. Mormon is a common name for a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Church discontinued polygamy more than a century ago. &quot;

The Church Style Guide for the Media reads (as Left Field pointed out):
&lt;blockquote&gt;“Please avoid the use of “Mormon Church,” “LDS Church” or “the Church of the Latter-day Saints.” … When referring to Church members, the term “Latter-day Saints” is preferred, though “Mormons” is acceptable. “Mormon” is correctly used in proper names such as the Book of Mormon, Mormon Tabernacle Choir or Mormon Trail, or when used as an adjective in such expressions as “Mormon pioneers.” The term “Mormonism” is acceptable in describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;
However, I could not locate the text any more on the general Church site (www.lds.org), but the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lds.org.au/newsmedia/presskit/style.asp&quot;&gt;official Australian URL&lt;/a&gt; of the Church still carries the text as of today.  Moreover that site adds the recent text: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;When referring to people or organizations that practice polygamy, the terms &quot;Mormons&quot;, &quot;Mormon fundamentalist&quot;, &quot;Mormon dissidents&quot;, etc., are incorrect. The Associated Press Style Guide notes: &quot;The term &#039;Mormon&#039; is not properly applied to the other ... churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith&#039;s death.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also a fascinating topic for linguists dealing with semantics...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is obvious the Church is at present struggling with use of the M-words. The tendency was, a number of years ago, to try to get rid of them in favor of the official name with Jesus Christ at the center. However, that official name contains no adjective like Catholic, Lutheran&#8230; And you need an adjective to identify so many things. That explains the success of the acronym LDS which got the value of an adjective (LDS missionaries, LDS Social Services, and even, though unwanted but widely used, LDS Church).  </p>
<p>But the next problem was that the M-words continued to be used, mainly by outsiders. With the internet came the issue of anti-Mormon sites using the M-word in their URL&#8217;s. Moreover, the media continued to identify as &#8220;mormon&#8221; other related churches, polygamists, etc. This led the Church to reclaim the M-words as it&#8217;s trademark. So now you can read on the official Church website, in a <a href="http://www.lds.org/newsroom/mistakes/0,15331,3885-1,00.html">reaction</a> to &#8220;mistakes in the news&#8221; :  &#8220;There is no such thing as a &#8220;polygamous&#8221; Mormon. Mormon is a common name for a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Church discontinued polygamy more than a century ago. &#8221;</p>
<p>The Church Style Guide for the Media reads (as Left Field pointed out):</p>
<blockquote><p>“Please avoid the use of “Mormon Church,” “LDS Church” or “the Church of the Latter-day Saints.” … When referring to Church members, the term “Latter-day Saints” is preferred, though “Mormons” is acceptable. “Mormon” is correctly used in proper names such as the Book of Mormon, Mormon Tabernacle Choir or Mormon Trail, or when used as an adjective in such expressions as “Mormon pioneers.” The term “Mormonism” is acceptable in describing the combination of doctrine, culture and lifestyle unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”</p></blockquote>
<p>However, I could not locate the text any more on the general Church site (www.lds.org), but the <a href="http://www.lds.org.au/newsmedia/presskit/style.asp">official Australian URL</a> of the Church still carries the text as of today.  Moreover that site adds the recent text: </p>
<blockquote><p>When referring to people or organizations that practice polygamy, the terms &#8220;Mormons&#8221;, &#8220;Mormon fundamentalist&#8221;, &#8220;Mormon dissidents&#8221;, etc., are incorrect. The Associated Press Style Guide notes: &#8220;The term &#8216;Mormon&#8217; is not properly applied to the other &#8230; churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith&#8217;s death.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Also a fascinating topic for linguists dealing with semantics&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Left Field</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-61164</link>
		<dc:creator>Left Field</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-61164</guid>
		<description>There seems to be a common misperception that the church objects to all uses of the term &quot;Mormon&quot;.  According to the style guide, &quot;Mormon Church&quot; is not appropriate.  However, the term &quot;Mormonism&quot; is acceptable, and the church says that it is acceptable and correct to refer to chuch members as Mormons, or to use the term as an adjective or part of a proper name.  Therefore, all of the terms listed in comment 33 are still considered appropriate by the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be a common misperception that the church objects to all uses of the term &#8220;Mormon&#8221;.  According to the style guide, &#8220;Mormon Church&#8221; is not appropriate.  However, the term &#8220;Mormonism&#8221; is acceptable, and the church says that it is acceptable and correct to refer to chuch members as Mormons, or to use the term as an adjective or part of a proper name.  Therefore, all of the terms listed in comment 33 are still considered appropriate by the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/04/its-time-for-a-link-war-a-hrefhttpwwwldstemplecommormon-templea/#comment-61159</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2144#comment-61159</guid>
		<description>Yes, the church definitely has definitely shown conflicting attitudes over the years on the question of &quot;Mormon&quot; versus &quot;LDS.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the church definitely has definitely shown conflicting attitudes over the years on the question of &#8220;Mormon&#8221; versus &#8220;LDS.&#8221;</p>
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