Comments on: Did We Raise the Bar too Far?

By: Justin A.

Justin A. — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:48:38 +0000

Simply put, serving a mission does not bring salvation to anyone. I have read many of the earlier arguements or comments on this message board. I appreciate those comments about all the missionaries who apparently can’t go out and serve a mission anymore. I appreciate the recognition that many who have gone before would not be able to go now. This is all true, and the arguements may pull at the heart of man, bringing some desire against the bar being raised. There has been mention made of the “Alma the Younger” type of missionary, who would find his (or her) conversion after recieving a mission call, or while serving a mission. The truth of the matter is, it is not a mission that converts somebody. It is not a mission that should be what makes a young man or young woman want to be good, and an example. There is a possible link to hypocrisy to be found here, although I do not believe it would be present in every case.
The goal of this life is to return home to our dearest Father in Heaven, and be there with Him, and our Savior and brother, the LORD Jesus Christ. This is to be done through obedience, and the love of God, which should abound in each of our hearts. Thus, considering this great and eternal purpose, those young men and young women who may have made wrong choices to disqualify themselves to serve a mission, have a hope, and a goal, and they have a path. The grace of God is real, and the LORD will forgive and welcome the repentant sinner in all cases. The true key to this, is not church service, although that is a wonderful and great and strengthening and life changing thing, but it is that relationship with God our Father, and His son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. It is in the living of the gospel, and recieving of His blessings and grace and love and peace and eternal salvation. That is what is most important.
The LORD knows each of us, and He knows what He is doing. He alone is in control. It is from Him we must seek our every blessing, and the answers to our humble prayers. In His name, I say these things, for I believe that they are true. Amen.

By: Ryan S.

Ryan S. — Wed, 25 May 2005 01:12:37 +0000

I’m sorry for this miscommunication there. Of course I did not mean Pres. Hinckley knows everything. He’s just a man. The head of the church I was reffering to was Jesus Christ. He who knows all things.

By: annegb

annegb — Wed, 25 May 2005 00:30:20 +0000

I think President Hinkley would be uncomfortable with people thinking he knows everything.

…although I agree, for me, when the prophet speaks, the debate is over.

By: Ryan S.

Ryan S. — Wed, 25 May 2005 00:13:47 +0000

I can’t believe there is this much debate over all this. To put the point of the whole matter simply, is Gordon B. Hinckley an inspired prophet of God or is he not. Everything hangs on this. Whether or not retention efforts, or the number of missionaries, or converts appears to go down for a while has nothing to do with the matter. Is he a prophet? We sustain him as such. I stick with Pres. Hinckley. In effect I trust the head of this church who’s name it bears. He it is who knows all things. It is his church, and he will do what is best.

By: J Larsen

J Larsen — Mon, 02 May 2005 06:11:33 +0000

I think that some church members, youth in particular, have twisted the “Raise the bar” talk as an excuse for excusing themselves from missionary service rather than shaping up and getting their act together so that they are worthy to serve. I think this has produced an attitude shift in general among some segments of the church population. I would say that it is somewhat more “socially acceptable” not to serve a mission than it has been in the past “every member a missionary” days.

As a result, some prospective missionaries are opting out of missionary service not because they have committed heinous moral sins, but because the feel missionary service just isn’t for them (perhaps they feel they are not as spiritual as some other stand-out scriptorian in their seminary or institute class).

As a student at BYU it seems that this is happening more and more to freshman friends of mine. These members still want to be active members of the church and hope to marry in the temple one day, but they don’t really care for interrupting their life for two years in order to serve a mission.

But who knows, the shortfall of single young elders who decide, for whatever reason, not to serve a mission may be made up for by an increase in elderly couples joining the missionary ranks. Also, it was interesting to note that in the last general conference a clarification was made as to the contribution that potential single sisters missionaries can make to the if they so choose to serve (i.e. sisters don’t have a priesthood obligation to serve a mission, but oh what a contribution they can make! Translation: we need you sisters, get in the field!). In the mean time, let’s get more prospective elders to try and clear the bar rather than not even attempting!

By: Confused

Confused — Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:18:08 +0000

Post 169, Mike,

Your statement makes No sense at all. The number of baptisms has been droping from a high in 1990. well over a decade not the 7-10 years as you state.

By: Matt Jacobsen

Matt Jacobsen — Wed, 27 Apr 2005 00:56:15 +0000

Just wanted to second the request of Jonathan Green to get a definition of the higher bar for missions. I also am not quite so concerned about sex because I think the law of chastity is clear enough. However, I recently found out about a family member who was denied the chance to serve a mission. As far as I know there were no transgressions involved, but she did spend a bit of time talking with her bishop about some counseling she had for depression while in junior high (imagine that!). I don’t think she ever took any medication. Obviously there may be more to the story, but she’s not a close relative so I can’t vouch for any more information. Still, I’m interested to know whether a case like this is par for the bar or out of line. Would the policy affect the way teens and their parents acknowledge and treat mental or behavioral problems?

Maybe I’ll ask my bishop and get back to you.

By: Mike Prestwich

Mike Prestwich — Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:45:50 +0000

My view, there has been no drop in the number of baptisms, but the seeming drop is due to a change in the way baptisms are recorded. About 7 or 10 years ago President Hinckley mandated that all missionary converts be confirmed in Sacrament Meeting. Prior to that missionaries could baptize and confirm new members without that investigator ever attending church. In some extreme cases the bishop did not know the baptism had even occured. Today that can’t happen. People who are baptised today, but fail to follow up with the confirmation in Sacrament Meeting, are never recorded.

By: A. Greenwood

A. Greenwood — Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:35:19 +0000

I don’t watch enough TV to even know what to make fun of. Maybe I should surf on over to Kulturblog for a crash course.

By: Steve Evans

Steve Evans — Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:20:31 +0000

Adam, don’t sweat it — I’ve been waiting for almost a decade to score points in a conversation with Rosalynde. It’s not an easy task, but she has her weaknesses (hint: T.V.).