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	<title>Comments on: Marrow and Fatness:  LDS and BMI</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: chosha</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-124944</link>
		<dc:creator>chosha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-124944</guid>
		<description>1. &lt;em&gt;Why does everyone seem to think Obesity is a problem?&lt;/em&gt;
Hmmm..there&#039;s a toughie. Maybe all that heart disease, diebetes, circulation problems...?

2. &lt;em&gt;The health risks are overstated (see http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113975,00.html )&lt;/em&gt;
Fox news? You&#039;re kidding right? The same Fox News whose science reporter is in the middle of a payola scandal for being in the pocket of big tobacco companies? Not likely to hear an &quot;eat meat sparingly&quot; from Fox with all those right wing Republican meat-producing states on the lookout, are we? Consider your source before you try to comfort yourself with stats from an unreliable and biassed news source.

3. A lot of commenters seem to think that people are saying that skinny is good. No, in fact skinny can be just as dangerous. We are not talking about nicely rounded people with a few extra pounds to keep them warm in winter. You have to be significantly overweight to qualify as obese. Obesity is a serious health risk. In fact, obesity is on the verge of surpassing smoking as the number 1 cause of preventable death. THIS is what people are talking about. Even if you technically follow the advice of the WoW (fruits, vegetables, grains, little meat, etc) if you are adding fats and oils to all of that, and getting no reasonable exercise, and are consequently putting on enough excess weight to threaten your health, then no, you are not &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; respecting the principles of the WoW, are you? But hey, I&#039;m not judging anyone for it: I&#039;ve struggled with these same principles for years and I know how difficult a struggle it can be to live a truly healthy life. I just don&#039;t think that telling ourselves comforting lies is the way to win the struggle. I honestly don&#039;t think that skinny is more beautiful that a healthy, curvy(for women) figure, but obesity (a much higher level of excess weight) actually threatens our health and reduces our quality of life. It isn&#039;t worth explaining away or ignoring.

I very much agree with Gabrielle Turner and others who said that the social aspect of eating encourages weight gain in members. I think it goes even beyond that. We see food as celebratory, comforting, and important to family traditions, and the ability to cook all kinds of unhealthy cakes, cookies and other baked goods as a homemaking skill to be envied. Food, glorious food! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. <em>Why does everyone seem to think Obesity is a problem?</em><br />
Hmmm..there&#8217;s a toughie. Maybe all that heart disease, diebetes, circulation problems&#8230;?</p>
<p>2. <em>The health risks are overstated (see <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113975,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113975,00.html</a> )</em><br />
Fox news? You&#8217;re kidding right? The same Fox News whose science reporter is in the middle of a payola scandal for being in the pocket of big tobacco companies? Not likely to hear an &#8220;eat meat sparingly&#8221; from Fox with all those right wing Republican meat-producing states on the lookout, are we? Consider your source before you try to comfort yourself with stats from an unreliable and biassed news source.</p>
<p>3. A lot of commenters seem to think that people are saying that skinny is good. No, in fact skinny can be just as dangerous. We are not talking about nicely rounded people with a few extra pounds to keep them warm in winter. You have to be significantly overweight to qualify as obese. Obesity is a serious health risk. In fact, obesity is on the verge of surpassing smoking as the number 1 cause of preventable death. THIS is what people are talking about. Even if you technically follow the advice of the WoW (fruits, vegetables, grains, little meat, etc) if you are adding fats and oils to all of that, and getting no reasonable exercise, and are consequently putting on enough excess weight to threaten your health, then no, you are not <em>really</em> respecting the principles of the WoW, are you? But hey, I&#8217;m not judging anyone for it: I&#8217;ve struggled with these same principles for years and I know how difficult a struggle it can be to live a truly healthy life. I just don&#8217;t think that telling ourselves comforting lies is the way to win the struggle. I honestly don&#8217;t think that skinny is more beautiful that a healthy, curvy(for women) figure, but obesity (a much higher level of excess weight) actually threatens our health and reduces our quality of life. It isn&#8217;t worth explaining away or ignoring.</p>
<p>I very much agree with Gabrielle Turner and others who said that the social aspect of eating encourages weight gain in members. I think it goes even beyond that. We see food as celebratory, comforting, and important to family traditions, and the ability to cook all kinds of unhealthy cakes, cookies and other baked goods as a homemaking skill to be envied. Food, glorious food! :)</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Osborne</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-82222</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Osborne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jul 2005 06:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-82222</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be upfront on a couple of things...

1.  I&#039;m not LDS, but living in Utah certainly (at least for me) brings an awareness and consideration of LDS beliefs, their impact on daily life, and a familiarity (and on my part, great respect for) the WoW and it&#039;s lifestyle recommendations.   I don&#039;t smoke (ugh!) or drink alcohol because of my healthy lifestyle choices.

2.  I&#039;m a member of a health providers group, and certainly have a vested interest in weight loss program at www.ut.TSFL.com

Not sure if this post will make it through based on the above restrictions, but we certainly have a problem with excess weight and obesity in the USA overall, and Utah as well, though less so here than in states like Wisconsin and Alabama, according to recent studies.

And the problem is growing (no pun intended).  Every year, we (as a US population) and our children get larger and more overweight.  Statistics and trends currently project that by the year 2015, over 80% of Americans will be overweight.

We must do something - I did.  I found a great program that enabled me to lose 13 pounds in twelve days, and my wife lost 20 in two weeks, and both of us did this without increasing the level and amount of exercise.

It&#039;s not easy, but in our experience it was a simple process - you must intake fewer calories, eat balanced meals with roughly equal grams of carbs and proteins, and eat 5 to 6 times a day, and eliminate the JUNK food.   The problem is, grocery stores don&#039;t offer a lot of foods that fit this bill, and as a culture we don&#039;t focus on small enough portions for this to work.

We offer on our website some good and helpful articles on weight loss (www.ut.TSFL.com), since we coach and provide support for people that are struggling with weight issues, including diabetes induced by being overweight.

In closing, I&#039;d simply say the following:
1.  You must restrict your caloric intake
2.  Eat 5-6 times a day, otherwise you&#039;ll get hungry and EAT TOO MUCH
3.  Moderate exercise is enough - you don&#039;t have to sweat it out or join a gym
4.  Balanced meals with equal amounts of carbs and proteins

Doing this, you can lose 3-5 pounds a week - One of our program members lost 187 pounds over 14 months, and went from 315 lbs to 128 lbs, and now looks and feels great.   Anyone can do it, and if you don&#039;t, you&#039;re doing your body (and your soul/spirit) a great disservice.

Live healthy, and take responsibility for your weight!
Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be upfront on a couple of things&#8230;</p>
<p>1.  I&#8217;m not LDS, but living in Utah certainly (at least for me) brings an awareness and consideration of LDS beliefs, their impact on daily life, and a familiarity (and on my part, great respect for) the WoW and it&#8217;s lifestyle recommendations.   I don&#8217;t smoke (ugh!) or drink alcohol because of my healthy lifestyle choices.</p>
<p>2.  I&#8217;m a member of a health providers group, and certainly have a vested interest in weight loss program at <a href="http://www.ut.TSFL.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.ut.TSFL.com</a></p>
<p>Not sure if this post will make it through based on the above restrictions, but we certainly have a problem with excess weight and obesity in the USA overall, and Utah as well, though less so here than in states like Wisconsin and Alabama, according to recent studies.</p>
<p>And the problem is growing (no pun intended).  Every year, we (as a US population) and our children get larger and more overweight.  Statistics and trends currently project that by the year 2015, over 80% of Americans will be overweight.</p>
<p>We must do something &#8211; I did.  I found a great program that enabled me to lose 13 pounds in twelve days, and my wife lost 20 in two weeks, and both of us did this without increasing the level and amount of exercise.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not easy, but in our experience it was a simple process &#8211; you must intake fewer calories, eat balanced meals with roughly equal grams of carbs and proteins, and eat 5 to 6 times a day, and eliminate the JUNK food.   The problem is, grocery stores don&#8217;t offer a lot of foods that fit this bill, and as a culture we don&#8217;t focus on small enough portions for this to work.</p>
<p>We offer on our website some good and helpful articles on weight loss (www.ut.TSFL.com), since we coach and provide support for people that are struggling with weight issues, including diabetes induced by being overweight.</p>
<p>In closing, I&#8217;d simply say the following:<br />
1.  You must restrict your caloric intake<br />
2.  Eat 5-6 times a day, otherwise you&#8217;ll get hungry and EAT TOO MUCH<br />
3.  Moderate exercise is enough &#8211; you don&#8217;t have to sweat it out or join a gym<br />
4.  Balanced meals with equal amounts of carbs and proteins</p>
<p>Doing this, you can lose 3-5 pounds a week &#8211; One of our program members lost 187 pounds over 14 months, and went from 315 lbs to 128 lbs, and now looks and feels great.   Anyone can do it, and if you don&#8217;t, you&#8217;re doing your body (and your soul/spirit) a great disservice.</p>
<p>Live healthy, and take responsibility for your weight!<br />
Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48805</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2005 03:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48805</guid>
		<description>Just had to put my two cents in:

1 Tim 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just had to put my two cents in:</p>
<p>1 Tim 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little</p>
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		<title>By: annegb</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48780</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48780</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t know where to put this, so I decided to pick the one where (hopefully) I could do the least damage if I change the subject.  On another web-site I&#039;ve been a member of for years, you get in trouble for that.  Slap my hands now.

It has occurred to me that I could be the mom of most of you.  My oldest child would be 34 this year.  And it&#039;s sort of pathetic that we are on the same level emotionally.  I was always sort of immature.  

I was just wondering, are there any other older middle aged women on this blog?  And if not, don&#039;t expect anything remotely dignified or mature from me guys.  Some of my best friends are in their 20&#039;s.  No lie.  That&#039;s probably why I talk like, way teenage.  :)

I have stepchildren who have teenagers.  Feature that!  

Just sharing that.  For context.

thanks, bryce for helping me negotiate.  I&#039;ve never been on the front page of this blog before.  I never saw it, came in on the visiting teaching thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know where to put this, so I decided to pick the one where (hopefully) I could do the least damage if I change the subject.  On another web-site I&#8217;ve been a member of for years, you get in trouble for that.  Slap my hands now.</p>
<p>It has occurred to me that I could be the mom of most of you.  My oldest child would be 34 this year.  And it&#8217;s sort of pathetic that we are on the same level emotionally.  I was always sort of immature.  </p>
<p>I was just wondering, are there any other older middle aged women on this blog?  And if not, don&#8217;t expect anything remotely dignified or mature from me guys.  Some of my best friends are in their 20&#8242;s.  No lie.  That&#8217;s probably why I talk like, way teenage.  :)</p>
<p>I have stepchildren who have teenagers.  Feature that!  </p>
<p>Just sharing that.  For context.</p>
<p>thanks, bryce for helping me negotiate.  I&#8217;ve never been on the front page of this blog before.  I never saw it, came in on the visiting teaching thing.</p>
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		<title>By: J.B. Haglund</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48676</link>
		<dc:creator>J.B. Haglund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48676</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the Word of Wisdom gives even greater support to the idea of Joseph Smith being an &quot;American Prophet.&quot;  Particularly since the average per capita consumption of beef in the United states is nearly 200 pounds.  I am pretty sure we lead the world in that category.

I just thought of that, but mostly I wanted to say to John Payne that I appreciate your candor even if the sisters in your ward don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the Word of Wisdom gives even greater support to the idea of Joseph Smith being an &#8220;American Prophet.&#8221;  Particularly since the average per capita consumption of beef in the United states is nearly 200 pounds.  I am pretty sure we lead the world in that category.</p>
<p>I just thought of that, but mostly I wanted to say to John Payne that I appreciate your candor even if the sisters in your ward don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Welker</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48565</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Welker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2005 23:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48565</guid>
		<description>Jed, to view the &quot;anti-meat comma&quot; as distorting the intended meaning of Section 89 seems inconsistent with verse 15: &quot;And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.&quot;   The &quot;these&quot; appears to refer back to &quot;beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth&quot; in verse 14.  Reading verses 13, 14, and 15 together, it seems that the Lord may be counseling us to limit our meat consumption to times of winter, cold, famine, or excess of hunger.  Given current research showing an apparent causal connection between high-meat consumption and degenerative disease,  I view these verses as evidence of the Lord&#039;s love for his children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jed, to view the &#8220;anti-meat comma&#8221; as distorting the intended meaning of Section 89 seems inconsistent with verse 15: &#8220;And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.&#8221;   The &#8220;these&#8221; appears to refer back to &#8220;beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth&#8221; in verse 14.  Reading verses 13, 14, and 15 together, it seems that the Lord may be counseling us to limit our meat consumption to times of winter, cold, famine, or excess of hunger.  Given current research showing an apparent causal connection between high-meat consumption and degenerative disease,  I view these verses as evidence of the Lord&#8217;s love for his children.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48519</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2005 21:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48519</guid>
		<description>Some Linkin Park lyrics:

I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn&#039;t even matter
I had to fall
To lose it all
But in the end
It doesn&#039;t even matter

Strangely appropriate for the topic of this thread, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some Linkin Park lyrics:</p>
<p>I tried so hard<br />
And got so far<br />
But in the end<br />
It doesn&#8217;t even matter<br />
I had to fall<br />
To lose it all<br />
But in the end<br />
It doesn&#8217;t even matter</p>
<p>Strangely appropriate for the topic of this thread, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48517</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48517</guid>
		<description>Naomi, 

Since I am of your parents&#039; generation, I should probably not be correcting your spelling of Linkin Park.

(That&#039;s the sum total of my knowledge of him/her/them/it, although I may have heard some of their stuff coming loudly from my son&#039;s stereo.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naomi, </p>
<p>Since I am of your parents&#8217; generation, I should probably not be correcting your spelling of Linkin Park.</p>
<p>(That&#8217;s the sum total of my knowledge of him/her/them/it, although I may have heard some of their stuff coming loudly from my son&#8217;s stereo.)</p>
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		<title>By: Naomi Frandsen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48500</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi Frandsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2005 19:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48500</guid>
		<description>Kaimi and Mark: I had forgotten about missions/countries where girth is valued. Romanians (my mission) had the idea that young women, at least, should be thin. Romanians also loved American TV and music and other cultural exports (at least pre-Iraq war). I wonder if the globalization of culture will effect more homogenous attitudes toward body size and beauty. I hope not. But I suppose it&#039;s possible if kids in Bucharest know more about Britney Spears and Linken Park (sp?) than me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaimi and Mark: I had forgotten about missions/countries where girth is valued. Romanians (my mission) had the idea that young women, at least, should be thin. Romanians also loved American TV and music and other cultural exports (at least pre-Iraq war). I wonder if the globalization of culture will effect more homogenous attitudes toward body size and beauty. I hope not. But I suppose it&#8217;s possible if kids in Bucharest know more about Britney Spears and Linken Park (sp?) than me.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/02/marrow-and-fatness-lds-and-bmi/#comment-48457</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1921#comment-48457</guid>
		<description>Mark,

More than affluence -- fatness was also equated with physical strength and (at least for men) masculinity.  If you were &quot;gordo&quot; it was assumed that you were strong and tough -- gordo was practically synonymous with strong.

We still see this, to some extent, in English -- describe someone as &quot;broad-shouldered&quot; or &quot;solid&quot; or even &quot;husky&quot; and the image is more likely to be of a big, strong, football linebacker type rather than a beer-bellied person.  But &quot;fat&quot; has definitely made the change in English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>More than affluence &#8212; fatness was also equated with physical strength and (at least for men) masculinity.  If you were &#8220;gordo&#8221; it was assumed that you were strong and tough &#8212; gordo was practically synonymous with strong.</p>
<p>We still see this, to some extent, in English &#8212; describe someone as &#8220;broad-shouldered&#8221; or &#8220;solid&#8221; or even &#8220;husky&#8221; and the image is more likely to be of a big, strong, football linebacker type rather than a beer-bellied person.  But &#8220;fat&#8221; has definitely made the change in English.</p>
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