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	<title>Comments on: Prodigal Artists</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Hootie</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42491</link>
		<dc:creator>Hootie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42491</guid>
		<description>The cover was unfortunate.  But one of the challenging aspects was how very human he made Joseph Smith.  Brother Smith wrestled in the streets of Nauvoo with his shirt off (which was a major breach of etiquette).  He also misinterpreted some visions, and handled others badly--like getting Emma Smith to accept polygamy.  And then there was the scene that happened after Joseph died, where Brigham is speaking to the saints.  Instead of visions of Joseph appearing to the throng, there are supporters of Brigham moving through the crowd whispering, &quot;Why, he sounds just like Joseph!  See, he looks almost just like him!&quot;

It probably doesn&#039;t have much cross-over appeal.  But if we&#039;re talking about writing great novels for Mormons, then it doesn&#039;t have to.  And if we&#039;re talking about simply writing great literature, well, it really won&#039;t matter who the intended audience is.  I&#039;m not a sixteenth century Londoner, but I can still appreciate and enjoy Shakespeare.  Do I get as much from it as the intended audience?  Probably not.  But there&#039;s plenty there to be had by all.

If we create great literature (or film, or any art form) then it won&#039;t matter that it&#039;s by Mormons for Mormons.  It will leak into the world anyway, even if we try to stop it.  It may not become a roaring flood, but it will still effect people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cover was unfortunate.  But one of the challenging aspects was how very human he made Joseph Smith.  Brother Smith wrestled in the streets of Nauvoo with his shirt off (which was a major breach of etiquette).  He also misinterpreted some visions, and handled others badly&#8211;like getting Emma Smith to accept polygamy.  And then there was the scene that happened after Joseph died, where Brigham is speaking to the saints.  Instead of visions of Joseph appearing to the throng, there are supporters of Brigham moving through the crowd whispering, &#8220;Why, he sounds just like Joseph!  See, he looks almost just like him!&#8221;</p>
<p>It probably doesn&#8217;t have much cross-over appeal.  But if we&#8217;re talking about writing great novels for Mormons, then it doesn&#8217;t have to.  And if we&#8217;re talking about simply writing great literature, well, it really won&#8217;t matter who the intended audience is.  I&#8217;m not a sixteenth century Londoner, but I can still appreciate and enjoy Shakespeare.  Do I get as much from it as the intended audience?  Probably not.  But there&#8217;s plenty there to be had by all.</p>
<p>If we create great literature (or film, or any art form) then it won&#8217;t matter that it&#8217;s by Mormons for Mormons.  It will leak into the world anyway, even if we try to stop it.  It may not become a roaring flood, but it will still effect people.</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42478</link>
		<dc:creator>danithew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42478</guid>
		<description>I read &lt;i&gt;Saints&lt;/i&gt; and liked it though the cover was designed to look like a romance novel.  It seemed to me like a fairly serious effort to depict the Prophet and other early saints in a realistic yet faith-promoting context.  I can&#039;t remember anything challenging about it but it has been years since I read it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read <i>Saints</i> and liked it though the cover was designed to look like a romance novel.  It seemed to me like a fairly serious effort to depict the Prophet and other early saints in a realistic yet faith-promoting context.  I can&#8217;t remember anything challenging about it but it has been years since I read it.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric James Stone</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42476</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric James Stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42476</guid>
		<description>I liked &lt;i&gt;Saints&lt;/i&gt; a lot.  However, unlike &lt;i&gt;Lost Boys&lt;/i&gt;, Alvin Maker, and the Homecoming series, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a novel that has much crossover appeal to non-Mormons.  I could be wrong about that, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked <i>Saints</i> a lot.  However, unlike <i>Lost Boys</i>, Alvin Maker, and the Homecoming series, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a novel that has much crossover appeal to non-Mormons.  I could be wrong about that, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Hootie</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42443</link>
		<dc:creator>Hootie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42443</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just curious, but in all the talk of OSC, how come no one has mentioned his novel &lt;i&gt;Saints&lt;/i&gt;?  For those not familiar, it is a historical novel, similar in theme to the Gerald Lund novels, but very different in tone.  OSC has called it his love song to his people, but it contains some very challenging ideas, things that are historically accurate but go against our pre-conceived notions about church history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just curious, but in all the talk of OSC, how come no one has mentioned his novel <i>Saints</i>?  For those not familiar, it is a historical novel, similar in theme to the Gerald Lund novels, but very different in tone.  OSC has called it his love song to his people, but it contains some very challenging ideas, things that are historically accurate but go against our pre-conceived notions about church history.</p>
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		<title>By: R.G.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42428</link>
		<dc:creator>R.G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42428</guid>
		<description>Jack,
     I appreciate your comments about needing to know the culture in order to write about it.  Several authors that have managed to bridge that gap come to mind.  Pearl Buck, Kipling, Conrad all seem to me good examples.  
     In order to tap into the broader L.D.S. world culture we might need to combine writing fiction with writing some other genres.  There are the superb writings of Oscar Lewis on a family in Mexico City.  His books are history/anthropology that read like a novel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack,<br />
     I appreciate your comments about needing to know the culture in order to write about it.  Several authors that have managed to bridge that gap come to mind.  Pearl Buck, Kipling, Conrad all seem to me good examples.<br />
     In order to tap into the broader L.D.S. world culture we might need to combine writing fiction with writing some other genres.  There are the superb writings of Oscar Lewis on a family in Mexico City.  His books are history/anthropology that read like a novel.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42379</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42379</guid>
		<description>RG, while I believe that what you suggest is something that EVERY latter-day saint should do - artist or not, I&#039;m not convinced that it&#039;s the stuff from which great novels are made. I&#039;ll try not to sound too stupid in what I&#039;m about to say (since I have just about zero education in literature), but it seems to me that the greatest of novelists stuck with their immediate culture. They stuck with it because they knew how to get inside of it. My hope is that we will see good mormon art arising out of all cultures that have been touched by the gospel. However, I&#039;m convinced that such works will be brought forth by those who are indigenous to those cultures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RG, while I believe that what you suggest is something that EVERY latter-day saint should do &#8211; artist or not, I&#8217;m not convinced that it&#8217;s the stuff from which great novels are made. I&#8217;ll try not to sound too stupid in what I&#8217;m about to say (since I have just about zero education in literature), but it seems to me that the greatest of novelists stuck with their immediate culture. They stuck with it because they knew how to get inside of it. My hope is that we will see good mormon art arising out of all cultures that have been touched by the gospel. However, I&#8217;m convinced that such works will be brought forth by those who are indigenous to those cultures.</p>
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		<title>By: RG</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42376</link>
		<dc:creator>RG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42376</guid>
		<description>There was an earlier comment about a desire to engage with the L.D.S. experience outside of North America (I think it was Anna).  Most likely that would lead to folklore and folkart studies, comparative culture studies (cultural anthropology, non-Western art history, oral history, etc.).   How prepared are L.D.S. literary types, who are steeped in the Western Tradition, but who have rather limited background in folklore (etc.) studies, prepared to access that non-North American L.D.S. world?

I think that one of the reasons that non-North American L.D.S. studies could prove interesting is by seeing what genuine conflicts those Saints face and how their religious faith engages with those conflicts.  I think that a couple of the reasons that the Church grows so rapidly in some third world lands is that life there is sometimes prettry horrendeous, and that the many people there are looking for something much better.  (Contrast that growth with the relatively flat growth in such peaceful places as Denmark.)

By way of comparison, life in America and places like much of Western Europe, looks pretty mellow.  While it is possible to write great litterature in an outwardly mellow environment, the level of difficulties in a thirld world country can sometimes bring conflict between good and evil into sharper focus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was an earlier comment about a desire to engage with the L.D.S. experience outside of North America (I think it was Anna).  Most likely that would lead to folklore and folkart studies, comparative culture studies (cultural anthropology, non-Western art history, oral history, etc.).   How prepared are L.D.S. literary types, who are steeped in the Western Tradition, but who have rather limited background in folklore (etc.) studies, prepared to access that non-North American L.D.S. world?</p>
<p>I think that one of the reasons that non-North American L.D.S. studies could prove interesting is by seeing what genuine conflicts those Saints face and how their religious faith engages with those conflicts.  I think that a couple of the reasons that the Church grows so rapidly in some third world lands is that life there is sometimes prettry horrendeous, and that the many people there are looking for something much better.  (Contrast that growth with the relatively flat growth in such peaceful places as Denmark.)</p>
<p>By way of comparison, life in America and places like much of Western Europe, looks pretty mellow.  While it is possible to write great litterature in an outwardly mellow environment, the level of difficulties in a thirld world country can sometimes bring conflict between good and evil into sharper focus.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric James Stone</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42365</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric James Stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42365</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been a fascinating discussion so far.  Sorry I haven&#039;t been much of a participant, but work was especially hectic today.

Orson Scott Card&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Lost Boys&lt;/i&gt; has been mentioned previously in regard to the portrayal of evil, but I also think its very relevant to the discussion of the development of Mormon literature.

Of course, many of Card&#039;s novels are filled with Mormon themes and ideas (the Alvin Maker fantasy series is based on the life of Joseph Smith, the Homecoming series is based on the Book of Mormon), but &lt;i&gt;Lost Boys&lt;/i&gt; is the one that comes closest to being what we generally think of as an LDS novel, because it deals with a modern-day LDS family.

&lt;i&gt;Lost Boys&lt;/i&gt; is only barely a fantasy novel (although sometimes classified as horror).  The speculative fiction part of it is apparent only in a small part of the book.  Most of the book is about a very real Mormon family dealing with real-life issues.  Mormon beliefs are not just tacked on to give the characters a community identity -- they are infused throughout the novel.  It is a book that could not have been written by anyone who was not a believing Mormon, yet it is still accessible to people outside our faith.

Of course, when it comes to LDS authors, Orson Scott Card is essentially in a class by himself.  But I think any discussion of the development of LDS novels needs to include &lt;i&gt;Lost Boys&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been a fascinating discussion so far.  Sorry I haven&#8217;t been much of a participant, but work was especially hectic today.</p>
<p>Orson Scott Card&#8217;s <i>Lost Boys</i> has been mentioned previously in regard to the portrayal of evil, but I also think its very relevant to the discussion of the development of Mormon literature.</p>
<p>Of course, many of Card&#8217;s novels are filled with Mormon themes and ideas (the Alvin Maker fantasy series is based on the life of Joseph Smith, the Homecoming series is based on the Book of Mormon), but <i>Lost Boys</i> is the one that comes closest to being what we generally think of as an LDS novel, because it deals with a modern-day LDS family.</p>
<p><i>Lost Boys</i> is only barely a fantasy novel (although sometimes classified as horror).  The speculative fiction part of it is apparent only in a small part of the book.  Most of the book is about a very real Mormon family dealing with real-life issues.  Mormon beliefs are not just tacked on to give the characters a community identity &#8212; they are infused throughout the novel.  It is a book that could not have been written by anyone who was not a believing Mormon, yet it is still accessible to people outside our faith.</p>
<p>Of course, when it comes to LDS authors, Orson Scott Card is essentially in a class by himself.  But I think any discussion of the development of LDS novels needs to include <i>Lost Boys</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42361</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 05:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42361</guid>
		<description>Great points William.

If I may clarify, I&#039;m not talking about a literary tradition per se, but rather a social/religious/cultural tradition. In reading Jane Austen one never senses a disconnect between the content and the culture out of which it grows. 

I agree with both of your points. Indeed, I would like to see our writers become thoroughly soaked in the best that the world has to offer and then bring forth works that reflect their deepest sensibilities. I think this would result in powerful uncompromised works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points William.</p>
<p>If I may clarify, I&#8217;m not talking about a literary tradition per se, but rather a social/religious/cultural tradition. In reading Jane Austen one never senses a disconnect between the content and the culture out of which it grows. </p>
<p>I agree with both of your points. Indeed, I would like to see our writers become thoroughly soaked in the best that the world has to offer and then bring forth works that reflect their deepest sensibilities. I think this would result in powerful uncompromised works.</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2005/01/prodigal-artists/#comment-42360</link>
		<dc:creator>danithew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2005 04:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1878#comment-42360</guid>
		<description>I know that this thread is about convincing evil in Mormon literature ... it just occurred to me that Dutcher&#039;s film &quot;Brigham City&quot; deals with the topic of evil (a serial killer) in the context of a small LDS community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that this thread is about convincing evil in Mormon literature &#8230; it just occurred to me that Dutcher&#8217;s film &#8220;Brigham City&#8221; deals with the topic of evil (a serial killer) in the context of a small LDS community.</p>
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