I just got back home after spending a week with family and friends in Arizona. These trips are always fun — seeing family members, playing with the kids, and so forth. They also result in a lot of interesting exchanges, which usually end up with me biting my tongue.
I know, on the blog I may seem to be a politically assertive person at times. But in real life, I’m more of a don’t-rock-the-boat type. I don’t want to start inter-family wars (there are too many of those already); I don’t want to take offense at statements that are often made without a second thought; I want to relax and play with my kids and not argue. (People get surprised and offended when you argue with them, unless the context is “let’s discuss X” — which is, for example, the environment this blog tries to establish).
And so I bit my tongue many times during this vacation. Highlights included numerous anti-gay remarks; one relative asserting that all Catholics are dumb; and another who was surprised that our son refered to Martin Luther King positively, and asked my wife if we were going to teach our son “the truth” about Martin Luther King (presumably, that he was an evil communist).
And of course, there were also the usual random remarks about Clintons, liberals, and so forth.
I get a lower dose of this than I used to. I’ve made clear over the years that I’m just not interested in discussing the secret conspiracies behind the United Nations, or the dead bodies of the legions of people who the Clintons had secretly assassinated, or the conspiracies of the medical establishment to keep people perpetually sick when all they really need is radio waves broadcast into their bodies to destroy the parasites that the medical establishment won’t tell you about.
I didn’t always bite my tongue, but even when I spoke up, it was guarded. For example, I deflected one conversation (“Most universities are forcing their students to watch X-rated movies, in order to hook kids on porn”) by asking for further details (the source was “I heard it on talk radio”) and then adopting a carefully neutral position myself — “If it’s true that universities are forcing students to watch X-rated movies, that would be a bad thing; however, absent further facts, I’m going to withhold judgment.”
I wondered, after I got home, how much of the tongue-biting was vacation-related (I just wanted to enjoy myself, not argue about the merits of Bill Clinton for the upteenth time) and how much of it was more than that. If I weren’t on vacation, would I be less inclined to bite my tongue? (I guess the only way to find that out would be to move back to Arizona).
Sometimes I think that my tongue-biting is a trait that I’ve developed, specifically as a Mormon. It is something that I do quite a bit in church, after all. But maybe it’s just that I’m a non-confontational person. I wonder if it’s a cultural thing, or if it’s just me.
Wow, it sounds like your family espouses numerous and sundry conspiracy theories. If you are taking these things your family and acquaintances in Arizona are saying and attributing these views to all “conservatives,” then it is no wonder that you frequently do battle with any hint of a conservative argument. The question remains, however, whether such wild theories are indeed shared by most conservatives. If they are, then maybe I shouldn’t be considered a conservative at all by people around here, since I have never heard of some of these absurd theories and certainly don’t hold such views.
Are we related? I have family into all this stuff, too, and more. Black helicopters, aliens taking over the earth through the Luminati, and oh yes, stockpiling guns and ammo. Have to protect your food storage, you know. Family vacations are more fun than Loony Tunes. Best of all, it’s my 70-year-old grandmother leading the charge.
Is it in Ferris Bueller, the line about everybody having a little crazy in their family? I have a lot, myself. It’s been too long since I saw that movie.
I have to bite my tongue at family gatherings as well. Invariably there’ll be remark or two about Bush as a criminal or evil corporations or corrupt leadership in the church etc.
Pardon me, is this the same John Fowles, who, just moments ago at BCC argued that one must buy the entire agenda of the left wing of the Democratic party to consider him/herself a “liberal”?
Give Kaimi a little credit for being able to tease apart the nuances of various conservative positions, John. He’s a fairly bright guy.
I continue to think that I am the only real liberal on this blog. The rest of you guys are conservatives or communitarians of one stripe or another?
Nate, I would suggest that you are probalby a real liberal, in the eighteent-century use of that word.
Kristine, I don’t exactly see the connection. I mean, I see where my comments at BCC just now give you ammo to say that, but what I am saying here is that, presumably, many of you have labeled me black and white as conservative. Yet, I have not even heard of any of the conspiracy theories that Kaimi mentioned; similarly, no one in my family and none of my personal acquaintances spend time talking about such conspiracies. I do have one good friend whose father, a liberal, spouts off all the time about how Bush is evil and how the Reagan Administration created the AIDS virus to kill gays. But we never pay him much mind.
Kaimi, I’m betting that just about everybody in the Church who espouses some form of liberalism goes to bed with a sore tongue from time to time after spending time with the conservative elements of the family. For most, Mormon = conservative, even among those who shoud know better.
We live within an hour of both sides of our family, so we get it almost weekly, although my wife’s side is far less understanding of our raging, morally bankrupt liberalism, than my side, who view us as a kind of sideshow in that respect.
With the in-laws, it can be kind of entertaining to throw out some off-hand remark about, say, President Bush and the national guard, or anything at all about Reagan, and watch the veins start popping.
The more sympathetic elements (the teenagers) have reported how the parents and older siblings talk about us when we’re not there (Diet Coke, PG-13 movies, JEANS on the SABBATH!, etc). Fun stuff.
“The rest of you guys are conservatives or communitarians of one stripe or another?”
Some red, some blue, and some, er, yellow?
I’ve learned a lot about tongue biting during the past five years. If only my mother-in-law could learn the same things…
I am a biter, as well — and I still must gnaw my tongue on occasion — (thee the thcar tithue?) — but I didn’t on the day after election day.
Wellsir, I was about to drive down to Boston for an appointment, and as I was heading out the door I received a phone call from a sister in our branch. No, no, the missus isn’t home. Yes, yes, I’m just leaving to drive to Boston.
“Ohoooooo!” she crowed. “Ha! Tell that John Kerry that HE’S A LOOOOOSERRRRR!”
I promised to have my wife call her back, bid her good day, and went to grab my keys. Then I stopped, picked up the phone, dialed her back, and said, “Hey there, it’s me again. Just as an aside, it isn’t always a good idea to assume that other people share one’s political views. You never know how they voted or where they stand. I am not mad at you, I just wanted to tell you that. Bye-bye.”
DANG, I felt better!
I know that my call-back sparked the gossip lines in the branch, and I am now viewed as a raging liberal madman (heck, I already was, as I have — horrors — GAY FRIENDS), but it was so refreshing to just pipe up for a moment.
I’d whisper about that DIET COKE behind your back too. Give me the real thing–sugared, laced with caffeine, sure to rot your teeth and your gut!
“For most, Mormon = conservative, even among those who shoud know better.”
Hmmm…!!! Does this mean only liberals know better. Go Edward Kennedy et al.
Admit it Kaimi, you would rather live in Pheonix than in NYC and feel slighly ashamed of it. I think that this whole post is simply an exercise in repressing your guilt desire to be rid of the Big Apple.
John, I’m failing to understand why you suddenly go on the defensive and turn this into a conservative/liberal issue rather than a holding-my-tongue issue. It seems like Jack’s comment (#3) would be the more appropriate response, rather than returning to the tired arguments of liberal vs. conservative.
BTW: These discussions remind me of nothing so much as the conversations that I have frequently had with conservative alumni of Ivy Legue law schools who like to tell the stories of gauche ideological assumptions by peers and professors. The truth, of course, is that the conservatives enjoy swapping these stories. It is taken as a mark of their intellectual independence and virtuous contrariness. Ditto for persecuted liberal Mormons.
Feeling a tad bit defensive today John?
a little bit, I guess.
““For most, Mormon = conservative, even among those who shoud know better.”
Hmmm…!!! Does this mean only liberals know better. Go Edward Kennedy et al. ”
No, no – not at all. ‘Those who should know better’ include, well technically everyone who has heard the First Presidence message read over the pulpit every political season, but specifically I’m referring to the families of people such as myself, who KNOW that we are ‘good’ active Mormons, but also politically liberal.
I would never suggest that liberals ‘know’ better. Though some might suggest that they ‘think’ better. Not me, though. :-)
“The truth, of course, is that the conservatives enjoy swapping these stories. It is taken as a mark of their intellectual independence and virtuous contrariness. Ditto for persecuted liberal Mormons.”
And then there are those who take great pride in their lofty disdain of both silly self-indulgent sides.
“And then there are those who take great pride in their lofty disdain of both silly self-indulgent sides.”
But I swap my stories as well. Let me tell you what happend to me once in my Contracts class….
(The pride comment, of course, is right on target. ;-> )
If we only had more Emily Post and Miss Manners, and less Rosanne Barr, we’d realize that the well-chewed tongue is a necessary condition of a civilized society.
The silly self-indulgence was also apt enough, I dare say. At least in my case.
If we only had more Emily Post and Miss Manners, and less Rosanne Barr, we’d realize that the well-chewed tongue is a necessary condition of a civilized society.
I’m sure there’s some kind of infringement of the First Amendment in there somewhere. . . .
John,
Only if it’s the government that’s biting your tongue.
Mark B.:
That last comment was benign, but sounds perverted.
Kaimi,
I can’t tell from your post whether you think your friends and relatives talk like this all the time, or whether your presence brings out particular types of comments. Have you considered the possibility that some aspect of your own comportment encourages your friends and relatives to remember and mention inane but “hardhitting” talk radio soundbytes when they are around you? You would have to be a great actor to hide your sense of condescention toward these people — which spills onto the internet in regular intervals — from them when you are actually with them. Perhaps they react to that in part by latching onto dubious arguments and assertions that have potential to bring people like you [as they see you] down to earth. Obviously, I don’t know these people (or you) personally, but I suspect I have brought out that kind of reaction in people before, so I thought I’d mention it.
Kaimi-
Ah, never mind…
I almost wore a Kerry/Edwards T-shirt to my mother’s family reunion last summer. Then I thought, “You know, I bet they haven’t had a good family lynching in years…”
Reminds me of a discussion on which one of the Bill of Rights is the most important. One person said “The Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, is the most important!” Questioned about why the First Amendment, freedom of speech, et al., wasn’t the most important, the answer was, “if you have a gun, you can say anything you want!”
Of course, neither option is desirable, but if forced, I would choose loftily disdainful than virtiously contrary.
I was driving in Santa Fe this summer, and during the lunch rush hour was behind a car with several “liberal” bumper stickers–“Buck Fush”, “Bush=Hitler”, “Nuclear Free Zone”, etc. My first thought was “What a remarkably effective, yet inexpensive anti-theft system.”
Tongue-biting is just something you sometimes have to do get along with people generally, flaming liberals and right-wing nut cases alike. Not that anybody on this blog would fall into any of those categories…
First thought: At least you have gathering-family still on speaking terms. You must be doing something right.
—
Second thought: Oh yes, gun nuts in the family. Conspiracy theorists. People who think the NRA is liberal. Gotta love them. I have a BIL who believes the bureaucratic wing of the federal government maintains secret underage brothels out in the desert, in order to bribe/influence/control/extort Senate votes. When everyone in the entire Chinese restaurant is turning and staring and you’re getting horrified looks from your ten year old who has the slightest inkling of what her Uncle means…well, it does make a get-together memorable. Bite my TONGUE? I had to think about whether it was time to bite the little cyanide capsule…. ;-) The black helicopters must have been down for maintenance that day, because we’re still here….
—–
Third thought: non-LDS family members (yes, gun nuts) maintain that it is not necessary to store food as long as you know where some Mormons live. I’ll take that handcart now….
There are crazies on both sides. I manage to be related to people who think Rush Limbaugh is a CIA operative and people who think that Bill Clinton is going to take over the new world government any day now.
I’m also related to well-meaning, intelligent, clear-minded folks on both sides. Many of whom own guns, many of whom eat nothing but uncooked “whole” (and genetically un-modified) fruits and vegetables. In fact, a few of THEM (the whole foods types) also own guns.
How’s about we agree that sometimes people are loopy or overenthusiastic or misinformed, and it’s generally preferable to not start big fights with them at family reunions?
(my first instance of purposeful tongue-biting, that I remember, was when my parents would inquire as to whom the other parent was dating, and whether the other parent’s children from a second marriage were uncivilized little brats; that started when I was perhaps in first grade… it wasn’t until I was at least 13 or 14 that I started seeing adults in my family act like insensitive idiots in a political context)