Comments on: Say No to Santa http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/ Truth Will Prevail Wed, 23 May 2012 10:07:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Weston C http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-37103 Weston C Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:19:26 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-37103 Why would Santa Claus have to "go"? Why not simply persist his association with Christmas while telling the truth about him? Why would Santa Claus have to “go”? Why not simply persist his association with Christmas while telling the truth about him?

]]> By: Mike Parker http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-37060 Mike Parker Sat, 25 Dec 2004 07:40:22 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-37060 Interesting thougths. I have three children (8, 5, 1) and have struggled over how to gently let them down from the Santa myth. My oldest was wavering, but has since renewed his faith after seeing "The Polar Express." The thing I dislike the most about Santa is that there is no one to whom children can express gratitude for the gifts they receive. If they get something from their parents, they can thank their parents. But Santa throws in gratitude-free giving. And I think that gratitude is one of the most important attributes to nuture in a child. Interesting thougths. I have three children (8, 5, 1) and have struggled over how to gently let them down from the Santa myth. My oldest was wavering, but has since renewed his faith after seeing “The Polar Express.”

The thing I dislike the most about Santa is that there is no one to whom children can express gratitude for the gifts they receive. If they get something from their parents, they can thank their parents. But Santa throws in gratitude-free giving. And I think that gratitude is one of the most important attributes to nuture in a child.

]]> By: Juliann http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-37024 Juliann Fri, 24 Dec 2004 05:48:03 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-37024 Santa is an elitist. All the big ticket items seem to end up under the Christmas trees of rich kids. Santa is an elitist. All the big ticket items seem to end up under the Christmas trees of rich kids.

]]> By: Derek Lines http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-37021 Derek Lines Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:57:19 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-37021 Since Brian seems to always be attacking my heroes, he forces me into the role of apologist once again (remember our nice BC discussions?) So here’s a point by point response to how he has got it all wrong with the Big Jolly ol’ Elf. 1. Lies aren’t always bad. We use necessary deceptions all the time in life. Context is everything. Lying about stealing the last cookie from the jar—bad. Conspiring to bring happiness, hope, love and presents to children—good. 2. Santa leads to a trial of faith, not a betrayal. Big difference. The scriptures tell us that we don’t even have real faith until it’s been tested. The sweet fantasy of Santa gives children the perfect opportunity to realize that some symbols are myth but the meaning behind them still has value. And yes, sometimes these trials do leave us battered (sorry about you getting beat up and all) but hopefully stronger in the long run. 3. Everything is a corporate tool these days. Even the Gospel itself is cleverly packaged, commentaried, and turned into cutesy kitsch for popular consumption on deseretbook.com (among others). Santa is merely on a long list of noble and good things turned into marketable mush in our godless capitalistic society. 4. Santa actually saves the true celebration of Christmas. Recent court decisions have made it clear that Christian holiday displays (nativities and such) cannot be put in public-owned places unless they are paired with secular displays like Santa and his reindeer. Thus, no Santa equals no baby Jesus on our courthouse steps. 5. Santa does teach important lessons other than love and kindness. A few years back my teenage brothers decided to switch the milk and cookies left for Santa for dog biscuits and left-over turkey grease. Needless to say, Santa taught them about justice and punishment by hiding their presents in the garage until they apologized to Santa the next morning. So even if Santa seems intolerant to you or hands our vindictive retribution for slights in my house, there are important lesson to learn there. So, stop bashing on poor Santa. Otherwise I will be forced to report you to www.naughtylist.com where Santa encourages us believers to let him know about those whose behavior does not merit the “nice� list. Since Brian seems to always be attacking my heroes, he forces me into the role of apologist once again (remember our nice BC discussions?)

So here’s a point by point response to how he has got it all wrong with the Big Jolly ol’ Elf.

1. Lies aren’t always bad. We use necessary deceptions all the time in life. Context is everything. Lying about stealing the last cookie from the jar—bad. Conspiring to bring happiness, hope, love and presents to children—good.

2. Santa leads to a trial of faith, not a betrayal. Big difference. The scriptures tell us that we don’t even have real faith until it’s been tested. The sweet fantasy of Santa gives children the perfect opportunity to realize that some symbols are myth but the meaning behind them still has value. And yes, sometimes these trials do leave us battered (sorry about you getting beat up and all) but hopefully stronger in the long run.

3. Everything is a corporate tool these days. Even the Gospel itself is cleverly packaged, commentaried, and turned into cutesy kitsch for popular consumption on deseretbook.com (among others). Santa is merely on a long list of noble and good things turned into marketable mush in our godless capitalistic society.

4. Santa actually saves the true celebration of Christmas. Recent court decisions have made it clear that Christian holiday displays (nativities and such) cannot be put in public-owned places unless they are paired with secular displays like Santa and his reindeer. Thus, no Santa equals no baby Jesus on our courthouse steps.

5. Santa does teach important lessons other than love and kindness. A few years back my teenage brothers decided to switch the milk and cookies left for Santa for dog biscuits and left-over turkey grease. Needless to say, Santa taught them about justice and punishment by hiding their presents in the garage until they apologized to Santa the next morning. So even if Santa seems intolerant to you or hands our vindictive retribution for slights in my house, there are important lesson to learn there.

So, stop bashing on poor Santa. Otherwise I will be forced to report you to http://www.naughtylist.com where Santa encourages us believers to let him know about those whose behavior does not merit the “nice� list.

]]> By: G. Jones http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-36843 G. Jones Wed, 22 Dec 2004 05:10:28 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-36843 I talked with Santa today. He was a patient in the hospital I work in. He shared with me his life story - 30 years in the Marine Corps, fought in Korea and Vietnam (4 years in the Hanoi Hilton) and when he came back in 1972, he went to the all with his wife and saw a Santa. He watched the joy on the kids faces as the talked with Santa and he told his wife that this was his new goal - to be Santa. After he retired from the service in the 80's, he grew his beard and hair, had them bleached white and began his Santa life. He works at a local big box store and kids all year round come up to him and talk to him about their love of Christmas. They will say "we know who you really are" and he'll tell them that he is incognito or looking for new toys to give away. He spends the year collecting cans and bottles, turning them in for cash and buys toys every Christmas. He takes them to the local childrens hospital and gives them out to the kids. He told me he gave out over 6000 toys this year to kids that are disabled or sick. He doesn't accept any kind of reimbursement. He just wants to bring some good into the world and his wife of 53 years helps him do it. He gave me his Santa business card a while back. So when I am asked if there is a Santa, I know there is. He lives in my hometown and understands what the Spirit of Christmas is all about. I talked with Santa today. He was a patient in the hospital I work in. He shared with me his life story – 30 years in the Marine Corps, fought in Korea and Vietnam (4 years in the Hanoi Hilton) and when he came back in 1972, he went to the all with his wife and saw a Santa. He watched the joy on the kids faces as the talked with Santa and he told his wife that this was his new goal – to be Santa. After he retired from the service in the 80′s, he grew his beard and hair, had them bleached white and began his Santa life. He works at a local big box store and kids all year round come up to him and talk to him about their love of Christmas. They will say “we know who you really are” and he’ll tell them that he is incognito or looking for new toys to give away.

He spends the year collecting cans and bottles, turning them in for cash and buys toys every Christmas. He takes them to the local childrens hospital and gives them out to the kids. He told me he gave out over 6000 toys this year to kids that are disabled or sick. He doesn’t accept any kind of reimbursement. He just wants to bring some good into the world and his wife of 53 years helps him do it.

He gave me his Santa business card a while back. So when I am asked if there is a Santa, I know there is. He lives in my hometown and understands what the Spirit of Christmas is all about.

]]> By: Brian G http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-36812 Brian G Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:56:38 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-36812 Mo, I feel really bad. After all, some of my best friends are White males. I’d like to apologize to all White males, especially those that are also Santa Claus. I hope all other White males will not be offended, and if so, that they’ll take comfort in all their money, power, and influence. Mo, I feel really bad. After all, some of my best friends are White males. I’d like to apologize to all White males, especially those that are also Santa Claus. I hope all other White males will not be offended, and if so, that they’ll take comfort in all their money, power, and influence.

]]> By: Mo http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-36761 Mo Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:40:08 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-36761 "Finally, number five: Santa is intolerant. That’s right, I said it. He’s a nose-ist. Sure, when the fog rolls in he needs Rudolph to lead the sleigh, but where was Santa when Rudolph was marginalized from the reindeer games. Santa’s a white male, isn’t he? Need I say more? The man has something against noses of color. And don’t get me started on the labor camps where elves without health plans slave day and night. No wonder, Herbie wanted to be a dentist." I understand that the above statement was written in a spirit of jest and light-heartedness, but it is a stereotypical slur against white males. Just substitute "Jew" or "black man" or "homosexual" for "white man" and see what lovely responses you'll receive. Not all white men are Nazis. I feel certain that you know that, but as Latter-Day Saints you ought to be respectful of all God's children--even those "evil" white men. I thought we were a little more enlightened than that here. Alas. “Finally, number five: Santa is intolerant. That’s right, I said it. He’s a nose-ist. Sure, when the fog rolls in he needs Rudolph to lead the sleigh, but where was Santa when Rudolph was marginalized from the reindeer games. Santa’s a white male, isn’t he? Need I say more? The man has something against noses of color. And don’t get me started on the labor camps where elves without health plans slave day and night. No wonder, Herbie wanted to be a dentist.”

I understand that the above statement was written in a spirit of jest and light-heartedness, but it is a stereotypical slur against white males. Just substitute “Jew” or “black man” or “homosexual” for “white man” and see what lovely responses you’ll receive. Not all white men are Nazis. I feel certain that you know that, but as Latter-Day Saints you ought to be respectful of all God’s children–even those “evil” white men. I thought we were a little more enlightened than that here. Alas.

]]> By: Bryce I http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-36723 Bryce I Tue, 21 Dec 2004 03:27:29 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-36723 Apropos of nothing, there's a terrific <em>This American Life</em> on "Kid Logic" in which a contributor relates the experience of discovering the true identity of the Tooth Fairy. Her best friend told her that she caught her father taking the tooth out from under her pillow the night before, so for years, the contributor claims she believed that the Tooth Fairy was her best friend's father. When she told her own father what she had learned, her father told her that he knew the secret, but not to tell anyone else, as her friend's father was a bit embarassed about having to take a second job (or something like that). As for Santa Claus, I'm not crazy about him, but then again, I'm not crazy about the whole gift-giving scene at Christmastime. That said, I've come to appreciate the magic of Santa in my own children's lives, and I don't have a problem perpetuating a lie that exists to bring some joy into our children's lives (trauma and betrayal notwithstanding -- my kids are all of believing age still, so I haven't had to deal with this aspect yet). We took our kids to a Santa train that our local science museum puts on as a fundraiser -- the train takes the kids to the North Pole to meet Santa, and they get to look for Rudolph, who is lost in the woods. We had great fun as a family, and the kids had as much excitement in anticipating the event as they did on the trip itself. Things we don't do: No holding threats of no presents over our kids heads, no telling kids that every Santa they see is somehow the real Santa, no pictures with Santa against their will, no presents with tags that read "from Santa". The Easter Bunny -- that's another matter entirely. Apropos of nothing, there’s a terrific This American Life on “Kid Logic” in which a contributor relates the experience of discovering the true identity of the Tooth Fairy. Her best friend told her that she caught her father taking the tooth out from under her pillow the night before, so for years, the contributor claims she believed that the Tooth Fairy was her best friend’s father. When she told her own father what she had learned, her father told her that he knew the secret, but not to tell anyone else, as her friend’s father was a bit embarassed about having to take a second job (or something like that).

As for Santa Claus, I’m not crazy about him, but then again, I’m not crazy about the whole gift-giving scene at Christmastime. That said, I’ve come to appreciate the magic of Santa in my own children’s lives, and I don’t have a problem perpetuating a lie that exists to bring some joy into our children’s lives (trauma and betrayal notwithstanding — my kids are all of believing age still, so I haven’t had to deal with this aspect yet).

We took our kids to a Santa train that our local science museum puts on as a fundraiser — the train takes the kids to the North Pole to meet Santa, and they get to look for Rudolph, who is lost in the woods. We had great fun as a family, and the kids had as much excitement in anticipating the event as they did on the trip itself.

Things we don’t do: No holding threats of no presents over our kids heads, no telling kids that every Santa they see is somehow the real Santa, no pictures with Santa against their will, no presents with tags that read “from Santa”.

The Easter Bunny — that’s another matter entirely.

]]> By: Adam Greenwood http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-36721 Adam Greenwood Tue, 21 Dec 2004 03:02:47 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-36721 You forget, Janey, that Santa Knows the Heart. You forget, Janey, that Santa Knows the Heart.

]]> By: Bryce I http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/say-no-to-santa/#comment-36719 Bryce I Tue, 21 Dec 2004 02:52:54 +0000 /?p=1766#comment-36719 It's true -- I've seen pictures of TOTAL Nathan's grandfather. Plus, he lives in Canada, which is in the North Pole, right? /(I'm a product of US public schools) It’s true — I’ve seen pictures of TOTAL Nathan’s grandfather. Plus, he lives in Canada, which is in the North Pole, right?

/(I’m a product of US public schools)

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