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	<title>Comments on: Part-Mormon couples</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-33527</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-33527</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Charlene.
We all hope husbands and wives don&#039;t lose the faith.  But if they do, lets have your attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Charlene.<br />
We all hope husbands and wives don&#8217;t lose the faith.  But if they do, lets have your attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-33028</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-33028</guid>
		<description>My life has both experiences.  I was raised in a Part Member family to a woman who was dedicated to getting me to church.  My father was the target of conversion, but stood firmly against contact with the church. I became quite the believer as a youth.  I assume my mother had problems at a family oriented church, but to my knowledge, never was marginalized as a member.

I served a mission and married in the temple.  Then I had a change of heart.  Now I face problems similar to what Ann and peep mentioned.

Anytime one of the members of a marriage has a change in their religious views, the marriage faces a challenge.  The key is for both partners to understand the other without trying to judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My life has both experiences.  I was raised in a Part Member family to a woman who was dedicated to getting me to church.  My father was the target of conversion, but stood firmly against contact with the church. I became quite the believer as a youth.  I assume my mother had problems at a family oriented church, but to my knowledge, never was marginalized as a member.</p>
<p>I served a mission and married in the temple.  Then I had a change of heart.  Now I face problems similar to what Ann and peep mentioned.</p>
<p>Anytime one of the members of a marriage has a change in their religious views, the marriage faces a challenge.  The key is for both partners to understand the other without trying to judge.</p>
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		<title>By: Janey</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32994</link>
		<dc:creator>Janey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 19:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32994</guid>
		<description>www.newordermormon.org has a discussion board for people who find they don&#039;t believe all the Mormon doctrine, but retain some level of Church activity for family or social reasons.  There is a lot of discussion over on that site about how to handle issues with the spouse and kids during a &quot;deconversion.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.newordermormon.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.newordermormon.org</a> has a discussion board for people who find they don&#8217;t believe all the Mormon doctrine, but retain some level of Church activity for family or social reasons.  There is a lot of discussion over on that site about how to handle issues with the spouse and kids during a &#8220;deconversion.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32957</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32957</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the original article and for all your comments. I am one of the deconversion types, a mid-40s guy who went on a mission and married in the temple, only to find myself desperately wanting completely out. My wife actually went so far a few weeks ago to want a divorce over the issue; later, when she could be more rational, there were two other serious issues that were at the core of her desire, but for which she claimed that my &quot;deteriorating attitude toward the church&quot; was the primary reason.

Things came to a head on a Saturday morning when we had slept in and were finally rested enough to talk like adults, and at the point where I tried to explain that my lifelong church experience has caused me pain, I actually felt pain, and I was overcome with great heaving sobs reflecting that pain. I had no idea that I was even capable of feeling that much emotion. And this was not just an act to get her to change her mind -- it was a true feeling, much as those who are totally committed to the church (for whatever reason) believe in the burning in the bosom. This was true heartburning in my bosom.

As for my own personal stance, I still attend sacrament meeting with my wife, but only because I am the organist and she is the director. We do well together, and if that keeps her satisfied, I am OK with that. But I leave immediately after. While there, I do not partake of the sacrament, and I have removed my garments. (Nearly 2 yrs now on the sacrament and over a year on the garments.) But I wonder about the long-term issues, such as when my children start to marry in the temple. One son is already home from a mission, my youngest son has about 1.5 yrs until he becomes deacon age. I do not wish to participate in those things, especially not if it means becoming a recommend holder only to participate in the marriage. I don&#039;t see any benefit in doing that, and especially since I would have to lie about some things, which I will not do.

Interestingly, my wife isn&#039;t really that into church herself, and freely admits that she sits on the fence and doesn&#039;t think she has enough whatever to make a firm choice either way. As long as she tolerates my for my unbelief, I will tolerate her for her lack of motivation to move either way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the original article and for all your comments. I am one of the deconversion types, a mid-40s guy who went on a mission and married in the temple, only to find myself desperately wanting completely out. My wife actually went so far a few weeks ago to want a divorce over the issue; later, when she could be more rational, there were two other serious issues that were at the core of her desire, but for which she claimed that my &#8220;deteriorating attitude toward the church&#8221; was the primary reason.</p>
<p>Things came to a head on a Saturday morning when we had slept in and were finally rested enough to talk like adults, and at the point where I tried to explain that my lifelong church experience has caused me pain, I actually felt pain, and I was overcome with great heaving sobs reflecting that pain. I had no idea that I was even capable of feeling that much emotion. And this was not just an act to get her to change her mind &#8212; it was a true feeling, much as those who are totally committed to the church (for whatever reason) believe in the burning in the bosom. This was true heartburning in my bosom.</p>
<p>As for my own personal stance, I still attend sacrament meeting with my wife, but only because I am the organist and she is the director. We do well together, and if that keeps her satisfied, I am OK with that. But I leave immediately after. While there, I do not partake of the sacrament, and I have removed my garments. (Nearly 2 yrs now on the sacrament and over a year on the garments.) But I wonder about the long-term issues, such as when my children start to marry in the temple. One son is already home from a mission, my youngest son has about 1.5 yrs until he becomes deacon age. I do not wish to participate in those things, especially not if it means becoming a recommend holder only to participate in the marriage. I don&#8217;t see any benefit in doing that, and especially since I would have to lie about some things, which I will not do.</p>
<p>Interestingly, my wife isn&#8217;t really that into church herself, and freely admits that she sits on the fence and doesn&#8217;t think she has enough whatever to make a firm choice either way. As long as she tolerates my for my unbelief, I will tolerate her for her lack of motivation to move either way.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32914</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32914</guid>
		<description>Wilifred -

I was on my mission from &#039;93 - &#039;95.

(of course, that doesn&#039;t tell the half of it.  The real answer of &quot;where and when did you serve&quot; takes, for me, several paragraphs to answer, since it was a bizarre and convoluted two years).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wilifred -</p>
<p>I was on my mission from &#8217;93 &#8211; &#8217;95.</p>
<p>(of course, that doesn&#8217;t tell the half of it.  The real answer of &#8220;where and when did you serve&#8221; takes, for me, several paragraphs to answer, since it was a bizarre and convoluted two years).</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Briggs</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32785</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 07:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32785</guid>
		<description>Peep, thanks for posting. You may feel ExMo betrayal but you didn&#039;t allow ExMo hatred to seep into the tone of your post. .I for one appreciate it. Wishing you well,

Charlene: Wow. I&#039;m very impressed by your description of your &quot;maturation&quot; process.

Best to both of you,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peep, thanks for posting. You may feel ExMo betrayal but you didn&#8217;t allow ExMo hatred to seep into the tone of your post. .I for one appreciate it. Wishing you well,</p>
<p>Charlene: Wow. I&#8217;m very impressed by your description of your &#8220;maturation&#8221; process.</p>
<p>Best to both of you,</p>
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		<title>By: Charlene</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32781</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32781</guid>
		<description>I have to comment on this topic that is so close to my heart.  Four years after marrying in the temple (and serving 2 1/2 yrs as a missionary) dh left the church.  It has been a long and difficult journey to find peace and balance with this.  There are a lot of social attitudes among church members (like Ann mentions--the spouse is marginalized, the wife feels guilt for not getting him to &quot;see the light&quot;)  that have made this even more difficult.  

Yet, in the end, this has been a good thing for me.  It has compelled me to shed some of my &quot;Mormonish judgmentalism&quot;, to see my husband as a child of God, as He sees him, not as an elder or an inactive or whatever other label we so often use.  It has shown me how to untangle the issues of gospel/church from marriage/relationship.  It has forced me to look more closely at my own belief--why I believe, how I can best express that belief, how that belief strengthens me, my marriage and my family.  My marriage, now disentangled from church expectations, is stronger.  And my belief, now disentangled from a girlish fantasy of a &quot;happily-ever-after eternal marriage&quot;, is stronger. 

I am saddened when I hear about marriages that are threatened or weakened by a spouse&#039;s difference in belief.  The Gospel should strengthen and enhance our relationships, not harm them.  If it a difference of belief threatens a marriage, then what are we doing wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to comment on this topic that is so close to my heart.  Four years after marrying in the temple (and serving 2 1/2 yrs as a missionary) dh left the church.  It has been a long and difficult journey to find peace and balance with this.  There are a lot of social attitudes among church members (like Ann mentions&#8211;the spouse is marginalized, the wife feels guilt for not getting him to &#8220;see the light&#8221;)  that have made this even more difficult.  </p>
<p>Yet, in the end, this has been a good thing for me.  It has compelled me to shed some of my &#8220;Mormonish judgmentalism&#8221;, to see my husband as a child of God, as He sees him, not as an elder or an inactive or whatever other label we so often use.  It has shown me how to untangle the issues of gospel/church from marriage/relationship.  It has forced me to look more closely at my own belief&#8211;why I believe, how I can best express that belief, how that belief strengthens me, my marriage and my family.  My marriage, now disentangled from church expectations, is stronger.  And my belief, now disentangled from a girlish fantasy of a &#8220;happily-ever-after eternal marriage&#8221;, is stronger. </p>
<p>I am saddened when I hear about marriages that are threatened or weakened by a spouse&#8217;s difference in belief.  The Gospel should strengthen and enhance our relationships, not harm them.  If it a difference of belief threatens a marriage, then what are we doing wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: gunner</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32718</link>
		<dc:creator>gunner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 03:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32718</guid>
		<description>A problem I see is the churches desire for everyone to be a missionary and spread the.gospel. I know of one lady who is so hyped about converting her husband that the main stress in the family is caused by her. Sometimes one member is enough, even if it is not a priesthood holder.

If from the start they understand that they each have a seperate faith and that the other should not be forced through guilt to change then there is a lot of hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A problem I see is the churches desire for everyone to be a missionary and spread the.gospel. I know of one lady who is so hyped about converting her husband that the main stress in the family is caused by her. Sometimes one member is enough, even if it is not a priesthood holder.</p>
<p>If from the start they understand that they each have a seperate faith and that the other should not be forced through guilt to change then there is a lot of hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Wilfried</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32709</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32709</guid>
		<description>Thank you, my friends, Mormon or non-Mormon or ex-Mormon spouses, for sharing your feelings and for your candor. There are valuable lessons to be drawn from what each of you said. It is important that we learn about the struggles you describe, whether you are active or semi-active or non-active, in whatever religious affiliation or non-religious ideology. The ability to cope with diversity, respectfully, is something that requires a lot of emotional maturity. We need to hear about your experiences to help us educate ourselves. 

Ivan, I take my hat off to missionaries who did what you and your companion did. Over the years I also witnessed a few cases where young missionaries were wiser than a mission president eager to get the numbers. I understand things have somewhat changed these past few years and that much more concern is given to other factors than statistics. What year were you on your mission?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, my friends, Mormon or non-Mormon or ex-Mormon spouses, for sharing your feelings and for your candor. There are valuable lessons to be drawn from what each of you said. It is important that we learn about the struggles you describe, whether you are active or semi-active or non-active, in whatever religious affiliation or non-religious ideology. The ability to cope with diversity, respectfully, is something that requires a lot of emotional maturity. We need to hear about your experiences to help us educate ourselves. </p>
<p>Ivan, I take my hat off to missionaries who did what you and your companion did. Over the years I also witnessed a few cases where young missionaries were wiser than a mission president eager to get the numbers. I understand things have somewhat changed these past few years and that much more concern is given to other factors than statistics. What year were you on your mission?</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/part-mormon-couples/#comment-32698</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 01:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1708#comment-32698</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a hard decision.

On my mission, we had a lady who was very, very, very interested in the church.  Her husband was not, and told us we were not welcome in his household.  His wife, in order to keep harmony with the husband, requested we not contact her until she contacts us (hoping her husband migh soften up).

We mentioned this incident to our mission president, and he declared that the husband didn&#039;t matter.  We should contact the wife and teach her when the husband wasn&#039;t home (since he was a truck driver, this could often be for weeks at a time).  

My companion and I declined to do so, and this made our president somewhat upset.  He read us scriptures about leaving your family for the gospel if that was what was required.  I responded with Joseph Smith&#039;s statement about how we should acquire the persmission of the head of the household before we could preach therein.  Our mission president told me that this lady&#039;s salvation might be on my head if I failed to convert her.

I said I&#039;d pray about it.  After doing so, my comp and I decided that we should not try and contact her, especially since she had requested we not do so.

It&#039;s a hard decision when a young missionary, especially with a mission president concerned more with sheer numbers of baptisms than anything else.  (It didn&#039;t help when an Apostle came out and told our president we didn&#039;t have enough baptisms.  But I digress - that&#039;s another topic for another thread).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a hard decision.</p>
<p>On my mission, we had a lady who was very, very, very interested in the church.  Her husband was not, and told us we were not welcome in his household.  His wife, in order to keep harmony with the husband, requested we not contact her until she contacts us (hoping her husband migh soften up).</p>
<p>We mentioned this incident to our mission president, and he declared that the husband didn&#8217;t matter.  We should contact the wife and teach her when the husband wasn&#8217;t home (since he was a truck driver, this could often be for weeks at a time).  </p>
<p>My companion and I declined to do so, and this made our president somewhat upset.  He read us scriptures about leaving your family for the gospel if that was what was required.  I responded with Joseph Smith&#8217;s statement about how we should acquire the persmission of the head of the household before we could preach therein.  Our mission president told me that this lady&#8217;s salvation might be on my head if I failed to convert her.</p>
<p>I said I&#8217;d pray about it.  After doing so, my comp and I decided that we should not try and contact her, especially since she had requested we not do so.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a hard decision when a young missionary, especially with a mission president concerned more with sheer numbers of baptisms than anything else.  (It didn&#8217;t help when an Apostle came out and told our president we didn&#8217;t have enough baptisms.  But I digress &#8211; that&#8217;s another topic for another thread).</p>
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