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	<title>Comments on: Jayâ€™s Journal: Mormon Horror Fiction&#8230;or is it?</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Scott D. Barrett</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-112645</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott D. Barrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-112645</guid>
		<description>If you have any questions regarding the Truth about my brother, Alden, and his life, please post them and I will respond.
Scott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have any questions regarding the Truth about my brother, Alden, and his life, please post them and I will respond.<br />
Scott</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Malmrose</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-36134</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Malmrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 02:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-36134</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never heard of &lt;i&gt;Jay&#039;s Journal&lt;/i&gt;, but I did read Sparks&#039; &lt;i&gt;Go Ask Alice&lt;/i&gt; as a teen. I wondered at the time how much of it was true, now I wonder even more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never heard of <i>Jay&#8217;s Journal</i>, but I did read Sparks&#8217; <i>Go Ask Alice</i> as a teen. I wondered at the time how much of it was true, now I wonder even more.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Arben Fox</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-36057</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Arben Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-36057</guid>
		<description>Jim, that really surprises (and pleases) me. I&#039;ve never been inside the new library, so obviously I was speaking without knowledge (something I do often), but I could have sworn that, aside from the front, the entire building looked quite different when I saw it last. Good for the city of Provo for recognizing and preserving a historical landmark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, that really surprises (and pleases) me. I&#8217;ve never been inside the new library, so obviously I was speaking without knowledge (something I do often), but I could have sworn that, aside from the front, the entire building looked quite different when I saw it last. Good for the city of Provo for recognizing and preserving a historical landmark.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-36037</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 04:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-36037</guid>
		<description>Russell Arben Fox: For the record (#24), you are wrong. The building is the restored original Academy Building. They tore down several adjacent buildings and restored the original building. (Russell being wrong happens so infrequently that I have to take every opportunity I get to make hay with a mistake.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russell Arben Fox: For the record (#24), you are wrong. The building is the restored original Academy Building. They tore down several adjacent buildings and restored the original building. (Russell being wrong happens so infrequently that I have to take every opportunity I get to make hay with a mistake.)</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-36021</link>
		<dc:creator>danithew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-36021</guid>
		<description>For an interesting perspective of Satan there&#039;s always Milton&#039;s Paradise Lost, where as some say, Satan is the hero or at least the most interesting character of the story.  His utter defiance almost comes off as heroic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For an interesting perspective of Satan there&#8217;s always Milton&#8217;s Paradise Lost, where as some say, Satan is the hero or at least the most interesting character of the story.  His utter defiance almost comes off as heroic.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kane</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-36017</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-36017</guid>
		<description>Dragonlance were some of the very few books I would willingly read growing up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dragonlance were some of the very few books I would willingly read growing up.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-35720</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-35720</guid>
		<description>For the record:
D&amp;D is totally evil!  It&#039;s so dull that you start thinking about Satan just for the pleasure of it.

However, as Kaimi has discovered, role playing games that you make up yourself are where it&#039;s at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record:<br />
D&#038;D is totally evil!  It&#8217;s so dull that you start thinking about Satan just for the pleasure of it.</p>
<p>However, as Kaimi has discovered, role playing games that you make up yourself are where it&#8217;s at.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-35669</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 21:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-35669</guid>
		<description>I think that you can show the reality of evil by looking out your door (well, all right, I suppose that depends on your neighborhood).  And, a reading of &quot;The Great Divorce&quot; and &quot;The Screwtape Letters&quot; instilled far more respect and fear of *actual* evil in me than ten thousand lectures on D&amp;D or EverQuest ever could, and it did so despite the fact that (amongst other things) I spent the better part of my mid-to-late teenage years writing Star Wars/Star Trek fanfiction, reading Harry Potter and similar (earlier) fantasy works, and playing MUDs, King&#039;s Quest, and EverQuest.  If anything, LOTR and similar stories gave me more ways to think about the nature of evil.

It&#039;s more about the conversations you have -- and the spirit you approach them in -- than what you ban them from watching/reading (since banning things usually entails various unintended consequences, including sometimes excessive curiousity/fascination with the thing that&#039;s been banned), in any case.  Maybe a conversation exploring the attitudes and motivations of Orcs and Balrogs is going a bit far, and I think that saying &quot;ah, this depicts Magic, and Magic is EVIL, and so let&#039;s burn this book&quot; is counterproductive on the best of days.  But how about talking about why children and young adults in Germany became willing servants of Hitler, or how public officials so often become tempted to do wrong things while in their offices of responsibility, or how powerful temptations (drugs, pornography, violence, whatever) can be -- and how hard it is to turn back once you&#039;ve given in to them?

Yes, Satan exists.  But our battles with him are in our minds and in our daily lives and in our interactions with other people and in how we respond to events in our communities and the world.  Walking around looking for demons who want to jump up and down on your shoulders telling you to do bad things (or slice you through with a broadsword -- depends on your preferred imagery, I suppose: Buffy or LooneyTunes) or Manifestations Of Pure Evil In The Form of Idolatrous Popular Culture and Possessed Persons is as good a way to distract yourself from how your own spiritual weaknesses are harming your family and friends and neighbors as any other method I can think of.

Seriously.  Reading the Book of Mormon and church history, it&#039;s pretty clear that most prophets most of the time never encountered herds of swine possessed by demons, and never got spirited away to mountain peaks to be tempted by Satan in person (as it were).  Even the &quot;and the whole room turned dark and I felt like I just wanted to die and it was incredibly cold and so forth&quot; experiences were kind of limited to selected spiritual giants, called to great deeds, who had already passed the &quot;are you good to your neighbor, and do you refrain from throwing stones at repentant sinners&quot; test.

Having said all of that, it&#039;s probably wise to explain at some point why you feel that pagan worship is misguided, or why seemingly harmless Oijua (sp?) board games and Tarot readings CAN lead to more problematic sign-seeking.  And I&#039;m all for explaining how exactly various pop stars are being grotesque, self-exploitative, and just plain icky when they do the grotesque, self-exploitative, and just plain icky things they do.  I definitely think that you can create an atmosphere that distracts from the Spirit with rock music and poker games.  Meanwhile, those who host firesides might do well to remember that you can get to Hell through petty injustices and too many bon-bons just as easily as you can through raping and pillaging (and the bon-bons don&#039;t create the same potentially life-changing &quot;oh, ew, I just killed a bunch of people and there&#039;s carnage and blood and I&#039;ve got to buy new boots&quot; moments that pillaging can); or, to put it another way, the demons are cheering anytime you turn away from Heaven, regardless of whether they brought out all their favorite tricks and whether or not you were wearing black, fingering some pagan symbol, and had too many peircings at the critical moment.

Which reminds me how much I liked reading &quot;The Screwtape Letters.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you can show the reality of evil by looking out your door (well, all right, I suppose that depends on your neighborhood).  And, a reading of &#8220;The Great Divorce&#8221; and &#8220;The Screwtape Letters&#8221; instilled far more respect and fear of *actual* evil in me than ten thousand lectures on D&#038;D or EverQuest ever could, and it did so despite the fact that (amongst other things) I spent the better part of my mid-to-late teenage years writing Star Wars/Star Trek fanfiction, reading Harry Potter and similar (earlier) fantasy works, and playing MUDs, King&#8217;s Quest, and EverQuest.  If anything, LOTR and similar stories gave me more ways to think about the nature of evil.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s more about the conversations you have &#8212; and the spirit you approach them in &#8212; than what you ban them from watching/reading (since banning things usually entails various unintended consequences, including sometimes excessive curiousity/fascination with the thing that&#8217;s been banned), in any case.  Maybe a conversation exploring the attitudes and motivations of Orcs and Balrogs is going a bit far, and I think that saying &#8220;ah, this depicts Magic, and Magic is EVIL, and so let&#8217;s burn this book&#8221; is counterproductive on the best of days.  But how about talking about why children and young adults in Germany became willing servants of Hitler, or how public officials so often become tempted to do wrong things while in their offices of responsibility, or how powerful temptations (drugs, pornography, violence, whatever) can be &#8212; and how hard it is to turn back once you&#8217;ve given in to them?</p>
<p>Yes, Satan exists.  But our battles with him are in our minds and in our daily lives and in our interactions with other people and in how we respond to events in our communities and the world.  Walking around looking for demons who want to jump up and down on your shoulders telling you to do bad things (or slice you through with a broadsword &#8212; depends on your preferred imagery, I suppose: Buffy or LooneyTunes) or Manifestations Of Pure Evil In The Form of Idolatrous Popular Culture and Possessed Persons is as good a way to distract yourself from how your own spiritual weaknesses are harming your family and friends and neighbors as any other method I can think of.</p>
<p>Seriously.  Reading the Book of Mormon and church history, it&#8217;s pretty clear that most prophets most of the time never encountered herds of swine possessed by demons, and never got spirited away to mountain peaks to be tempted by Satan in person (as it were).  Even the &#8220;and the whole room turned dark and I felt like I just wanted to die and it was incredibly cold and so forth&#8221; experiences were kind of limited to selected spiritual giants, called to great deeds, who had already passed the &#8220;are you good to your neighbor, and do you refrain from throwing stones at repentant sinners&#8221; test.</p>
<p>Having said all of that, it&#8217;s probably wise to explain at some point why you feel that pagan worship is misguided, or why seemingly harmless Oijua (sp?) board games and Tarot readings CAN lead to more problematic sign-seeking.  And I&#8217;m all for explaining how exactly various pop stars are being grotesque, self-exploitative, and just plain icky when they do the grotesque, self-exploitative, and just plain icky things they do.  I definitely think that you can create an atmosphere that distracts from the Spirit with rock music and poker games.  Meanwhile, those who host firesides might do well to remember that you can get to Hell through petty injustices and too many bon-bons just as easily as you can through raping and pillaging (and the bon-bons don&#8217;t create the same potentially life-changing &#8220;oh, ew, I just killed a bunch of people and there&#8217;s carnage and blood and I&#8217;ve got to buy new boots&#8221; moments that pillaging can); or, to put it another way, the demons are cheering anytime you turn away from Heaven, regardless of whether they brought out all their favorite tricks and whether or not you were wearing black, fingering some pagan symbol, and had too many peircings at the critical moment.</p>
<p>Which reminds me how much I liked reading &#8220;The Screwtape Letters.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian G.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-35632</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-35632</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Holy thread-jack.  What was a perfectly good thread about Satan morphed into a ComicCon.  Luckily, I have a plus five sword I affectionately call Glamdring the Thread-jacker Hammer with which to vanquish all you zero charisma interlopers.  Hold on, let me get out my twenty-sided polyhedron.  (Shuffling of paper, sound of a die rolling.)  Oh, look a twenty, since I happen to be a 30th level Chaotic Evil Fighter-Magic User Drow I simultaneously cast a Spell of Fatal Wounds.  Oh, and don&#039;t bother coming after me I&#039;m also wearing a Cloak of Invisibility.

There.  Can we get back to talking about the Prince of Darkness now?  

I was a big Dungeons &amp; Dragons geek too back in the day and I actually see how it relates to an early 80s Satanic Panic atmosphere that we all seemed to feel, (plus, I&#039;m glad it inflates the number of posts on this thread) but if I could, I&#039;d like to steer the conversation back to an issue which my original post probably should have raised.

By being Mormon we certainly believe in the reality of Satan, possession, disembodied spirits, and assorted evil forces.  If that&#039;s what we believe than I think it follows that there is a danger in exploring the occult.  Now, I&#039;m not saying rock music and Dungeons &amp; Dragons lead to that exploration, but as a young parent I wonder how to instill a healthy respect and awareness for the reality of evil without overdoing it and scaring the bejesus out of my offspring early 80s style.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Holy thread-jack.  What was a perfectly good thread about Satan morphed into a ComicCon.  Luckily, I have a plus five sword I affectionately call Glamdring the Thread-jacker Hammer with which to vanquish all you zero charisma interlopers.  Hold on, let me get out my twenty-sided polyhedron.  (Shuffling of paper, sound of a die rolling.)  Oh, look a twenty, since I happen to be a 30th level Chaotic Evil Fighter-Magic User Drow I simultaneously cast a Spell of Fatal Wounds.  Oh, and don&#8217;t bother coming after me I&#8217;m also wearing a Cloak of Invisibility.</p>
<p>There.  Can we get back to talking about the Prince of Darkness now?  </p>
<p>I was a big Dungeons &#038; Dragons geek too back in the day and I actually see how it relates to an early 80s Satanic Panic atmosphere that we all seemed to feel, (plus, I&#8217;m glad it inflates the number of posts on this thread) but if I could, I&#8217;d like to steer the conversation back to an issue which my original post probably should have raised.</p>
<p>By being Mormon we certainly believe in the reality of Satan, possession, disembodied spirits, and assorted evil forces.  If that&#8217;s what we believe than I think it follows that there is a danger in exploring the occult.  Now, I&#8217;m not saying rock music and Dungeons &#038; Dragons lead to that exploration, but as a young parent I wonder how to instill a healthy respect and awareness for the reality of evil without overdoing it and scaring the bejesus out of my offspring early 80s style.</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/12/jays-journal-mormon-horror-fictionor-is-it/#comment-35626</link>
		<dc:creator>danithew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1759#comment-35626</guid>
		<description>No worries Greg.  I think you are right.  I had some of my own misgivings after posting those lyrics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries Greg.  I think you are right.  I had some of my own misgivings after posting those lyrics.</p>
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