Comments on: Ender’s Game as Mormon Literature

By: a random John

a random John — Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:43:20 +0000

This would probably be the place to note the announcement of a online game based on the world of Alvin Maker. People should sign up to play their ancestors.

By: Jack

Jack — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:43:53 +0000

russ,

Maybe. I think a lot of us just want something GOOD!!! We’re caught between the drivel at the conference center, or the dispicable of Labute. Thank goodness there’s a first rate Sci-Fi author somewhere there in the middle.

By: russ turner

russ turner — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:27:05 +0000

I really find it amazing that we as a group still have the herding/defence mentality that requires us to stick out either our butts or our horns in support of any else of us who have some success in the “world”. The need to identify with “success” is pretty pathetic to me. We can’t be happy with ours unless we have some really successful Mormon to look to. “Success” through association? Anyway, we also seem to need to find something “mormonish” in anything a successfull Mormon does. Why so ? Can’t it just be an alluring or compelling story, in this case, that happens to have been written by one of “ours”? Anyway, thanks for “Alvin”.

By: Jonathan Green

Jonathan Green — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:55:23 +0000

I actually enjoyed Pastwatch quite a bit, perhaps because I had been an avid Civilization player, and the game formed part of Card's inspiration for the book. I've seen what happens when the Aztecs show up with artillery in 1520 A.D., and it ain't pretty. Clark, I think you're largely correct about the Founding Fathers, but the notion of Columbus as prophet has a pretty solid foundation, although there are various definitions of "prophet" at work here. Let me quote from Marjorie Reeves, The Influence of Prophecy in the Later Middle Ages: A Study in Joachimism (1969, rpt. 1993), p. 360: "But perhaps the most striking example of these Spanish-centred prophets is Christopher Columbus himself. In 1501-2 he wrote the Libro de las profecias in which he tried to search into the prophetic future...His collection of prophecies gives a somewhat confused programme of Last Things, but through it runs the thread of the expected Age of Gold and the role of the Spanish monarchs in it." Pretty cool, don't you think?

By: Clark

Clark — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 03:21:23 +0000

Ivan, I think that a good criticism that is always present in Card. The “logic” of the story and characters and where Card wants them to go often are at war. Occasionally he avoids this – but typically because he is writing a shorter work. As I said earlier, I think Card’s style is just better suited for shorter works.

By: Ivan Wolfe

Ivan Wolfe — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:01:59 +0000

I thought Pastwatch was interesting as a meditation on Columbus (and probably the best apolgetic work dealing with him), but as a fictional narrative it fell flat (for me). The last third, especially, I found to be too hurried, and the characters ceased being characters and instead became game pieces, to be moved where ever OSC wanted to put them. It seems to me their quest was more likely to fail than succeed, and the fact it all went so smoothly with nary a bump annoyed me.

Let’s just say different strokes for different folks. OSC’s early work (which, as Clark notes tended to be rewritten over and over and over – it’s a textual nightmare) does not appeal to or move me in any way.

But as I said before, OSC at his worst is usually twenty five times better than most sci-fi/fantasy writers at their best.

By: Clark

Clark — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:32:15 +0000

One problem or at least interesting theological question is in the last two volumes where one “clones” oneself. i.e. one “spirit” in two bodies or vice versa. Kind of an interesting question I thought.

The “creaking” of course was worse than theology. As in most science fiction the whole relativistic effect and the implications aren’t addressed. (i.e. that FTL communication entails time travel)

By: lyle

lyle — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:03:54 +0000

oh, and folks of the fringe is my fav.

By: lyle

lyle — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:02:37 +0000

rather than saying that “philotes” and “ansibles” as theology creaked…but never broke down completely, how about a more detailed exposition? My guess is that many didn’t read the 3rd or 4th books in the ender series; and many of the rest of us don’t remember well enough.

also: what about Ender’s marriage? Is it a statement in pro/con of committment?

By: Clark

Clark — Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:04:54 +0000

That’s interesting Ivan. Treason, in both its incarnations, while deeply flawed, were among my favorite Card books. (BTW – what was up with that period wherein Card kept radically rewriting books? I can understand that with short stories – but with novels?) I also really enjoyed the Worthing Saga in all its various permutations. (Weren’t there three rather different versions published? The last was very influenced by the Book of Mormon and Moroni in particular) What is also interesting to me is that all of them were among his most Mormon – more so than even the Alvin series or the latter books in the Ender series with its odd mixture of Quantum Mechanics and Orson Pratt ontology.

Different strokes for different folks perhaps? I found the second Bean book good, but hardly great, and nowhere as good as Shadow. The third one was a big disappointment.

The books within the last decade or so that I thought were good Card was his reworking of Lost Boys (although the short story still is superior). I also found Pastwatch interesting, especially from a Mormon perspective regarding both atonement as well as a our desire to hold Columbus up as a quasi-prophet. Reconciling that status with the actual history is difficult. (As it is for many Founding Fathers as well) Mormons often invent a mythic Christopher Columbus more in line with how they think he “ought” to be. I found the story interesting as a meditation on that phenomena, especially in light of how we view the atonement and forgiving sins.