Things have been a little heavy around here lately . . . [fanfare] But not too heavy for MISTER . . . INCREDIBLE . . . to lift!
Er, yes.
The lovely one and I snuck out to see The Incredibles. Good fun it was. We can now confirm everything that everyone else has said about it. Yes, the dialogue snaps, the jokes leave you gasping, the animation gilds the lily, and really, who can say too much about the idea of having superheroes driven underground by lawsuits and becoming pedestrian Middle American families in a society that’s a weird blend of today and the 1950s. Even the little things are done right, and there are little things for everyone. The lovely one, for example, is a francophone, and for her The Incredibles had the minor villain Bomb Voyage, who spoke nothing but French. She loved it. I loved it. Suffice it to say that if you at all have creativity envy, this movie is an official Occasion to Sin.
All that stuff about the movie being a hymn to family is, I have to say, pretty much accurate. The movie really is about the Incredibles, the whole lot of them, and how they get along. But I’m a sucker for sentiment so you’ll have to judge for yourself.
The accompaniment to the family hymn was an in-your-face plug for meritocracy. It didn’t work. Maybe the writers should have read our two recent posts on the subject, dunno. But it didn’t work. It even got odious. The writers were trying so hard to criticize suppressing talents in the name of equality that when the villain reveals his ultimate villainous dream we find that it is to give everyone superpowers. O black, black soul. Because then, of course, no one would be better than anyone else. To excel but not exceed is truly a dagger in the heart, apparently. I’m still cringing.
I much prefer the Mormon vision of excellence. When we are immortal Gods our equality will not dismay us.
Andrew Sullivan’s been cataloguing liberal complaints againstThe Incredibles. Liberal opinion columnist Ted Rall goes so far as saying The Incredibles has “fascist connotations.”
From an Obeserver article titled “It’s Super Bush!”:
And from The Nation:
Yes, The Incredibles makes The Nation squirm because it reminds them that family is the foundation of society. And The Nation worries that freedom may be on the march.
Hmmm…I tried clicking on both of the links labelled “The Incredibles”, but nothing happened.
Kim, links at T&S are indicated only by the red-colored type, they aren’t underlined.
Personally I think Ted Rall goes out of his way to make over-the-top nonsensical comments. Plus he sees Nazis under every bush.
When we are immortal Gods our equality will not dismay us.
My understanding of concepts like perfection and immortality is pretty limited. However I have never seen anything to imply that we will all be equal. In fact, quite the opposite is stated in D&C 130.
http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/130/18#18
Adam, is the second time we will agree? I too found The Incredibles to be a “good flick”.
If you ask me, though, all this about how conservative The Incredibles is is so much hooey. Yes, the movie portrays a successful conventional family. But, you know, there’s lots of families that way. That’s why its a convention.
As for the whole Ayn Rand bit, one could just as well make out a case that the movie is secretly about gay-rights liberation or something. You know, these ‘superheroes’ in campy outfits have to go underground because of societal intolerance but find happiness by coming out, etc., etc. Coincidence that one of the superheroes is named Gazerbeam? I think not.
Since there’s no law against self-promoting, I might as well mention my post on The Incredibles as well.
In additional to your gay-lib reading Adam, I would add the subtle yet blistering critique of entrepreneurial values represented by Syndrome. Creating a market through heavy-handed, quite in-your-face advertising, then selling salvation at a tidy profit. (Or is it a defense of the high cost of products by showing all the R&D that goes into these things…)
I agree that the Trojan Horse worries voiced by the Ted Rall types are a bit silly. And even if they’re right, we blue staters have had Dr. Seuss stroking us for years. Fair’s fair.
Not to mention the not very subtle but blistering critique of insurance companies.
Yep, flexibility, that’s what I like. My 3-year-old Abraham has promised me an Incredible Mom toy for Christmas.
My boys loved the movie. I loved the movie. Good family fun, and I’m so glad I’m not required to get deeper than that anymore if I don’t want to.
“links at T&S are indicated only by the red-colored type, they aren’t underlined.”
Most website I visit have links underlined. I guess it was force of habit that I clicked on them. I’ll have to keep in mind that T&S links do not use underlines and underlined text are not links.
Thanks for the headsup.
Yeah, I have to say that I picked up on the gay liberation theme before I picked up on the conservative themes. I guess if a movie can offend the right and left, it has done it’s job, and we can just settle down to the business of enjoying it. I thought it was great…
Insurance companies now have more to worry about than movie critiques, thanks to Eliot Spitzer’s crusade.
Adam, I would prefer that you respond to the point of my post rather than fixing the grammar error that it happened to highlight. Is there a concept of equality in the eternities? Does perfect mean equal? Does being “one” with the Lord reduce your individuality?
I agree with Random John. I find nothing wrong with The Incredibles’ plug for meritocracy. I also find the villain’s enforced equality plan very similar to the Luciferian proposal we have all heard of.
On the other hand, there is D&C 76:95, which says that those who have qualified for the Celestial kingdom will be made equal to the Son:
http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/76/95#94
Was anyone disturbed by the prancing naked sheep during the preshow cartoon?
I thought that the Incredibles was incredible. I liked the sheep and the short before the movie too. Am I perverted?
Carl,
As long as we are throwing scriptures at each other, look at Abraham 3:18-19:
http://scriptures.lds.org/abr/3/18
Remember Carl, you are the junior companion and must defer to my judgement! :)
Anyhow, while those that will be saved will be equal in some ways, the Abraham scripture seems to say that no two beings are equal to each other.
As far as the sheep goes, the sight of the jackalope split my sides. Of course I might have been the only person in the theater that was familiar with the concept of the jackalope. Did anyone else think it looked like it was wearing a jackalope suit?
later,
John
I still don’t see how The Incredibles version of meritocracy is stomachable. The Incredibles got their talent through, I presume, biology. The villain wishes to give people talent through technology. Why is the one better than the other?
More fundamentally, are The Incredibles less if others become more? You point to scriptures that suggest there is inequality in capacities and so forth, but I think those scriptures are just describing the reality of existence rather than prescribing a desirable goal. Is there anything in the scriptures to suggest that Gods are worse off if anyone has talents and capabilities equal to theirs?
Adam,
I think that you need to flesh out the villian’s plan a bit more. First he intends to eliminate all “natural” superheros by means of deception. Then he plans to become the only superhero through technology, which he developed and is arguably his “talent”. Finally, once he is done being a hero he will disseminate his technology so that his position of being uniquely special is cemented in history. I think that we can agree that this is an evil and selfish plan.
The Incredibles would not have been diminished if Syndrome had choosen to simply be a good superhero using his talents and technology. I think that the arguement being made is that people should not feel that they have to hide their lamp under a bushel, right?
As for the more gospel centered discussion, my arguement is that I don’t see the scriptural basis for equality, especially if equality means sameness. I don’t think that perfection implies equality. I do agree that there is nothing to suggest that any righteous being is worse off is another righteous being achieves something. In fact quite the opposite. God grows in glory as His children do.
As far as this relates to the movie, again, the superheros didn’t feel dimished by the fact that there were other superheros. They just wanted to be able to live up to their own potential. They didn’t want to be rulers over the normal folk, rather they wanted to serve them. I fail to see what is wrong with that.
btw, Thanks for responding this time!
I disagree with your assessment of the movie. Yeah, it’s bad that he’s killing off all the superheroes and so forth. But as the movie see its he hasn’t perfected his villainy until he reveals that one day he plans to give *everyone* superpowers. His cvillainous motive for this is not that he will then be remembered as uniquely special or anything, it’s that ‘no one will be super because everyone will be.’ I think the clear implication is that superpowers are ‘good’ only if most people don’t have them.
I disagree with you about perfection and sameness by the way, but I just don’t think its germane to this discussion.
Adam,
You brought the perfection and sameness issue up in the last paragraph of your post, which I happen to see no basis for in scripture. :)
I see your point about the villian’s plan, and the pinacle of it being the giving everyone superpowers. Obviously I took it in a different way. I don’t think that the idea was explored in any real depth by the movie and there certainly isn’t much to grab onto there.
I do agree that it was sort of strange that the villian’s evil plan was to give everyone superpowers, but I did like the message of “if everyone’s special, no one is.” Some people are more intelligent than others, and some more talented, and trying to deny that is silly and stifling. I even wish it was explored a bit deeper, it was only hinted at in the movie, really.
Stella,
I agree that it was probably the idea of forced homogeneity that was being cast as evil rather than the idea that if someone else is more then I am less. As you say, the movie didn’t explore it in any detail, so it is pretty hard to support any particular interpretation for the horror that the family showed at the idea of everyone being “super”.
Very nice summary of The Incredible Meritocracy Debate, at least as pertains to education, in the NYT here.
Today was my oldest daughter’s 7th birthday, and as a part of the celebration I took her and her almost 4-year-old sister to see The Incredibles.
Mistake. Not because it’s a bad movie — I enjoyed all of the parts I got to see. However, the PG rating was well merited. Despite the fact that my in-laws both vouched for its watchability by little kids and the fact that several of Jaymie’s peers have seen the film and not been upset by it, both of my daughters asked if we could leave the theater about a half-hour before the end.
All of which goes to show that kids have to learn to watch the kinds of violence and action that we take for granted in films. My children have always been sensitive to on-screen action and violence, and consequently have little experience with it. Not that that’s a bad thing, but I have to learn not to trust the judgment of others when deciding what may or may not be appropriate viewing for my children.
I’m looking forward to the video release.
I don’t think that Gazerbeam was a gay-rights comment. I believe that is was more of a cut down on the popular x-men caracter Cyclops. Eveyone in the comic book world thinks he’s gay and I believe the pixsar people do too
~bob
Johhny -
Cyclops gay???? After marrying ultra-hot babe Jean Grey and then cheating on her with super-ultra hot Emma Frost and people think he’s gay????
What?
Although the character Gazerbeam clearly is Cyclops from the X-men – right down to the visor and with the same powers.
just like the Incredibles are the Fantastic Four (only with the Flash instead of the Human Torch, but Jak-Jak is clearly Franklin Richards from the FF – especially with the reveal at the end).
Frozone is clearly Iceman of the X-men (or maybe the Golden age Jack Frost) – he even uses his ice powers the same way, with the ice bridges for travel.