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	<title>Comments on: Utah presidential politics</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Greg Call</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27546</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Call</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27546</guid>
		<description>Rob, I think you&#039;re right that SLC doesn&#039;t really fit your model.  Even suburban Orange County and Las Vegas are trending Democratic.

I suppose we &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; hypothesize that SLC&#039;s devotion to the GOP has a religious, rather than economic or demographic or geographic, explanation . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, I think you&#8217;re right that SLC doesn&#8217;t really fit your model.  Even suburban Orange County and Las Vegas are trending Democratic.</p>
<p>I suppose we <i>could</i> hypothesize that SLC&#8217;s devotion to the GOP has a religious, rather than economic or demographic or geographic, explanation . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Briggs</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27417</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27417</guid>
		<description>Yes, I do need to make some refinements. Rob (the other Rob) may be correct in his economic explanation, but I&#039;m a bit out of my depth there.

I suppose what I had in mind was that the Dems maintain a majority in the major metropolitan areas of the west coast (San Diego, LA, San Francisco Bay Area, Portland, Seattle-Tacoma) and the east (NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.) while the GOP majorities are everyplace in between, except other major metropolitan areas such as Minneapolis-St. Paul, Chicago, Denver, Las Vegas, etc.

It&#039;s hard to fit SLC into this model. Unless we say that SLC is metropolitan but not &quot;major metropolitan.&quot;  Still SLC&#039;s commitment to the GOP does seem remarkable.

Perhaps SLC is like Fresno. Fresno is the 6th largest city in Cal &amp; there are 1 M people in larger Fresno. Yet it remains conservative compared with the other Calif. cities I&#039;ve named. Maybe it&#039;s its agricultural roots, no pun intended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I do need to make some refinements. Rob (the other Rob) may be correct in his economic explanation, but I&#8217;m a bit out of my depth there.</p>
<p>I suppose what I had in mind was that the Dems maintain a majority in the major metropolitan areas of the west coast (San Diego, LA, San Francisco Bay Area, Portland, Seattle-Tacoma) and the east (NYC, Boston, Philly, etc.) while the GOP majorities are everyplace in between, except other major metropolitan areas such as Minneapolis-St. Paul, Chicago, Denver, Las Vegas, etc.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to fit SLC into this model. Unless we say that SLC is metropolitan but not &#8220;major metropolitan.&#8221;  Still SLC&#8217;s commitment to the GOP does seem remarkable.</p>
<p>Perhaps SLC is like Fresno. Fresno is the 6th largest city in Cal &#038; there are 1 M people in larger Fresno. Yet it remains conservative compared with the other Calif. cities I&#8217;ve named. Maybe it&#8217;s its agricultural roots, no pun intended.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27322</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27322</guid>
		<description>I think the bigger distinction, rather than urban and rural, might be fringe vs. centers.  Most of the interior US and the South are economically fringe areas--resource exporters and importers of manufactured goods.  They were dominated by a) Southern extractive colonial economies or b) Western extractive economies.  Even now, the urban areas in these states are fairly low in the hierarchy of US cities--pretty far removed from the powerhouse manufacturing and financial centers.  Red state cities like Denver and dallas and Houston are colonial cities that support the supply chain for the industrial NE.

There&#039;s a lot to be said about the history of the two major parties and their bases, but I think you have to look at the Red extractive colonial economy states vs. Blue Industrial states--and the resulting different distances from global capital within the global and national economy and city system-- and the psychologies created within these two different political economies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the bigger distinction, rather than urban and rural, might be fringe vs. centers.  Most of the interior US and the South are economically fringe areas&#8211;resource exporters and importers of manufactured goods.  They were dominated by a) Southern extractive colonial economies or b) Western extractive economies.  Even now, the urban areas in these states are fairly low in the hierarchy of US cities&#8211;pretty far removed from the powerhouse manufacturing and financial centers.  Red state cities like Denver and dallas and Houston are colonial cities that support the supply chain for the industrial NE.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot to be said about the history of the two major parties and their bases, but I think you have to look at the Red extractive colonial economy states vs. Blue Industrial states&#8211;and the resulting different distances from global capital within the global and national economy and city system&#8211; and the psychologies created within these two different political economies.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate Oman</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27318</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Oman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27318</guid>
		<description>D.: Bennett raised over $2 million for his campaign.  He spent some of it.

Rob Briggs: The problem with the rural v. urban explanation is that Utah is the second most urban state (as measured by percentage of the population living in urban areas) in the Union.  (The most urban state is Neveda.)  A moments reflection should make this obvious.  Someplace like upstate New York or Pennsylvania is more or less evenly populated outside of its main urban centers (NYC and Philly).  There are lots of small towns and lots of farm land.  In contrast Utah is mainly empty.  The vast majority of the population lives in a relatively narrow corridor of land at the base of the Wasatch Mountains and most of those on the Wasatch front live between Provo and Ogden.  Comparatively few Utahns live in small towns or rural areas.  In other words, Utah gets classified as rural because of its politics, however, at this point the concept of &quot;rural&quot; ceases to do much analytic work and is little more than another label for &quot;conservative.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D.: Bennett raised over $2 million for his campaign.  He spent some of it.</p>
<p>Rob Briggs: The problem with the rural v. urban explanation is that Utah is the second most urban state (as measured by percentage of the population living in urban areas) in the Union.  (The most urban state is Neveda.)  A moments reflection should make this obvious.  Someplace like upstate New York or Pennsylvania is more or less evenly populated outside of its main urban centers (NYC and Philly).  There are lots of small towns and lots of farm land.  In contrast Utah is mainly empty.  The vast majority of the population lives in a relatively narrow corridor of land at the base of the Wasatch Mountains and most of those on the Wasatch front live between Provo and Ogden.  Comparatively few Utahns live in small towns or rural areas.  In other words, Utah gets classified as rural because of its politics, however, at this point the concept of &#8220;rural&#8221; ceases to do much analytic work and is little more than another label for &#8220;conservative.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Call</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27314</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Call</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27314</guid>
		<description>Rob Briggs,

I&#039;m not as ready as you are to chalk it up to the urban/rural divide, though that is obviously part of it.  Rural people are a demographic majority in just five states: Maine, Mississippi, South Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia. Two of these states, of course, are heavily Democratic, and West Virginia is much closer to parity than Utah/Idaho/Wyoming. So it seems it is not ruralness, per se, which accounts for the Utah/Idaho/Wyoming distinctiveness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob Briggs,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not as ready as you are to chalk it up to the urban/rural divide, though that is obviously part of it.  Rural people are a demographic majority in just five states: Maine, Mississippi, South Dakota, Vermont, and West Virginia. Two of these states, of course, are heavily Democratic, and West Virginia is much closer to parity than Utah/Idaho/Wyoming. So it seems it is not ruralness, per se, which accounts for the Utah/Idaho/Wyoming distinctiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27303</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27303</guid>
		<description>Bush got 73% of the two-party vote in Utah, including a whopping 89% in Utah county.  He must have gotten better than 90% among active mormons.  Kerry&#039;s 11% was down from 14% for Gore in 2000.  It makes you understand how mormon democrats might feel a bit beleaguered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush got 73% of the two-party vote in Utah, including a whopping 89% in Utah county.  He must have gotten better than 90% among active mormons.  Kerry&#8217;s 11% was down from 14% for Gore in 2000.  It makes you understand how mormon democrats might feel a bit beleaguered.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Call</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27295</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Call</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27295</guid>
		<description>Dan,
What I should have said is that Utah was the most anti-Gore state in the nation. A smaller percentage voted for Gore in Utah than even Wyoming or Idaho.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,<br />
What I should have said is that Utah was the most anti-Gore state in the nation. A smaller percentage voted for Gore in Utah than even Wyoming or Idaho.</p>
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		<title>By: RS</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27290</link>
		<dc:creator>RS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27290</guid>
		<description>Someone spent money on the Bennett campaign. There was a billboard that said &quot;Better Looking than Lincoln - Just Barely&quot; I guess this is all you need to do to get elected in Utah as a Republican. Who cares about issues.

I did see Bush and Kerry ads but only on cable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone spent money on the Bennett campaign. There was a billboard that said &#8220;Better Looking than Lincoln &#8211; Just Barely&#8221; I guess this is all you need to do to get elected in Utah as a Republican. Who cares about issues.</p>
<p>I did see Bush and Kerry ads but only on cable.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Briggs</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27258</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27258</guid>
		<description>It seems to be a rural vs. urban thing (mainly), plus the Great Plains, Rocky Mountains &amp; most of the central US lean GOP. Urbanites tip toward the Demos; Ruralites toward the GOP. Utah, therefore, tips to the GOP. Idaho &amp; Wyoming, even more rural than Utah, are the leading GOP states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to be a rural vs. urban thing (mainly), plus the Great Plains, Rocky Mountains &#038; most of the central US lean GOP. Urbanites tip toward the Demos; Ruralites toward the GOP. Utah, therefore, tips to the GOP. Idaho &#038; Wyoming, even more rural than Utah, are the leading GOP states.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Ashworth</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/utah-presidential-politics/#comment-27245</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Ashworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 06:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1549#comment-27245</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Mormons and elections, but deviating slightly from the topic at hand, let me just say that I&#039;m trying to keep track of how all Mormons that are federal and gubernatorial candidates fare in this election. To view a quick summary, visit this page on my site: http://www.kevinashworth.com/latterdaynews/283/how-mormons-fared-in-election Visit it to post improved information, too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Mormons and elections, but deviating slightly from the topic at hand, let me just say that I&#8217;m trying to keep track of how all Mormons that are federal and gubernatorial candidates fare in this election. To view a quick summary, visit this page on my site: <a href="http://www.kevinashworth.com/latterdaynews/283/how-mormons-fared-in-election" rel="nofollow">http://www.kevinashworth.com/latterdaynews/283/how-mormons-fared-in-election</a> Visit it to post improved information, too!</p>
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