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	<title>Comments on: Interpreting Scripture</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Blake Ostler</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28974</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Ostler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28974</guid>
		<description>whoops, I meant that there is always a &quot;differance&quot; between the text and our take on the text.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whoops, I meant that there is always a &#8220;differance&#8221; between the text and our take on the text.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake Ostler</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28971</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Ostler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28971</guid>
		<description>Joe: The reason I haven&#039;t joined is that it seems fairly obvious to me that an interpretation of a text is not the text and does not merely restate the text -- there is always a differenace, always more and alaways less in an interpretation that there is in the text -- though I tend to see the text as a noumena rather than a phenomena in the sense I think you speak of text. There is no text that we can grasp that exists apart from us coming to it. I am just at a loss to grasp why you think my book ignores that point since I really don&#039;t engage in much exegesis at all there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe: The reason I haven&#8217;t joined is that it seems fairly obvious to me that an interpretation of a text is not the text and does not merely restate the text &#8212; there is always a differenace, always more and alaways less in an interpretation that there is in the text &#8212; though I tend to see the text as a noumena rather than a phenomena in the sense I think you speak of text. There is no text that we can grasp that exists apart from us coming to it. I am just at a loss to grasp why you think my book ignores that point since I really don&#8217;t engage in much exegesis at all there.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Goble</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28966</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Goble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28966</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Mormons generally derive the claim that they are not to interpret scripture themselves from Peterâ€™s claim that scripture is of no private interpretation.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

A small quibble.  I think the theological point &lt;i&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; come from this scripture but rather this scripture is the prooftext used to &lt;i&gt;express&lt;/i&gt; the notion.  I actually always thought 1 Cor 14 was perhaps a better text (although still not clearly expressing the notion often taught in the church)

I think the point is that the origin of prophesy is God and to merely focus in on the prophet is to miss what was being expressed.  When we say &quot;no private interpretation&quot; it doesn&#039;t just mean we get to pick the meaning.  However I think that a logical implication from what was taught.  (i.e. that the &lt;i&gt;origin&lt;/i&gt; of the text is beyond the simple context)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Mormons generally derive the claim that they are not to interpret scripture themselves from Peterâ€™s claim that scripture is of no private interpretation.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>A small quibble.  I think the theological point <i>doesn&#8217;t</i> come from this scripture but rather this scripture is the prooftext used to <i>express</i> the notion.  I actually always thought 1 Cor 14 was perhaps a better text (although still not clearly expressing the notion often taught in the church)</p>
<p>I think the point is that the origin of prophesy is God and to merely focus in on the prophet is to miss what was being expressed.  When we say &#8220;no private interpretation&#8221; it doesn&#8217;t just mean we get to pick the meaning.  However I think that a logical implication from what was taught.  (i.e. that the <i>origin</i> of the text is beyond the simple context)</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Spencer</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28960</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28960</guid>
		<description>I have to admit that this post is going in an entirely different direction than I imagined it would.  I think that part of that is because Blake has not joined in, and I think the idea behind the post was to provide Blake and myself to discuss interpretation and Mormon ontology.  I suppose any thread has its own intentions.

I wonder if any have any thoughts on my comment above (#1)?  There was a point of clarification here and there, but no one has made any claims about it, disagreements with it, etc.  Is this a good model for interpretation?  Does it ring with the quotation from Joseph that was shared here?  How does it bear on the history of religious interpretation that has given way to textual critical theory?  Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit that this post is going in an entirely different direction than I imagined it would.  I think that part of that is because Blake has not joined in, and I think the idea behind the post was to provide Blake and myself to discuss interpretation and Mormon ontology.  I suppose any thread has its own intentions.</p>
<p>I wonder if any have any thoughts on my comment above (#1)?  There was a point of clarification here and there, but no one has made any claims about it, disagreements with it, etc.  Is this a good model for interpretation?  Does it ring with the quotation from Joseph that was shared here?  How does it bear on the history of religious interpretation that has given way to textual critical theory?  Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Spencer</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28958</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28958</guid>
		<description>First of all, thanks Jim for your clarification.  I hope my hedge was big enough to reveal how little I know about Deconstruction.  

Second, a response to Larry.  The connection between Peter&#039;s claim that revelation comes by God&#039;s will and not by the prophet&#039;s will and my claim that there is no justification for the claim that Mormon&#039;s are not to privately interpret scripture is this: Mormons generally derive the claim that they are not to interpret scripture themselves from Peter&#039;s claim that scripture is of no private interpretation.  But when we look at the context, the Greek, and better translations, Peter doesn&#039;t say that.  He says that prophets receive their prophecies by God&#039;s will and not their own.  In other words, the claim that scripture should not be subject to personal interpretation is a misreading of the text.  There are certainly powerful implications in that text for personal interpretation, but Peter does not, it appears, say anything about whether personal interpretation should be done.  There is certainly no commandment against it, which is nice, because I&#039;m not sure what such a commandment would mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, thanks Jim for your clarification.  I hope my hedge was big enough to reveal how little I know about Deconstruction.  </p>
<p>Second, a response to Larry.  The connection between Peter&#8217;s claim that revelation comes by God&#8217;s will and not by the prophet&#8217;s will and my claim that there is no justification for the claim that Mormon&#8217;s are not to privately interpret scripture is this: Mormons generally derive the claim that they are not to interpret scripture themselves from Peter&#8217;s claim that scripture is of no private interpretation.  But when we look at the context, the Greek, and better translations, Peter doesn&#8217;t say that.  He says that prophets receive their prophecies by God&#8217;s will and not their own.  In other words, the claim that scripture should not be subject to personal interpretation is a misreading of the text.  There are certainly powerful implications in that text for personal interpretation, but Peter does not, it appears, say anything about whether personal interpretation should be done.  There is certainly no commandment against it, which is nice, because I&#8217;m not sure what such a commandment would mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Goble</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28957</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Goble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28957</guid>
		<description>Marc D&#039;s quote from Joseph is quite good.  One might want also to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boap.org/LDS/Parallel/1843/29Jan43.html&quot;&gt;read the original notes&lt;/a&gt; from which the account in the TPJS was &quot;created.&quot;

I&#039;d say that Joseph&#039;s comments are quite similar to the notion of Deconstruction, whether in Derrida or the similar notion in Heidegger.  Of course Derrida&#039;s use is a little more Hegelian than Heidegger&#039;s (IMO).  There he not only wants to return to the original phenomena that allowed the text to be produced. He wants to focus on what was left out or excluded in the text as we have it.  And, since the text is always a finite and therefore incomplete representation of an infinite phenomena, that &quot;left out&quot; is always available.  And that was what I was trying to get at. 

Texts are always &lt;i&gt;about&lt;/i&gt; something and to correctly read the text we shouldn&#039;t just focus on what the text says in its public meaning, nor in a way should we just worry about the author&#039;s intent.  Rather we should place ourselves in the role of the original questioner trying to bring forth the truth that was sought after.  It is that bringing forth truth that is the point of the scriptures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc D&#8217;s quote from Joseph is quite good.  One might want also to <a href="http://www.boap.org/LDS/Parallel/1843/29Jan43.html">read the original notes</a> from which the account in the TPJS was &#8220;created.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say that Joseph&#8217;s comments are quite similar to the notion of Deconstruction, whether in Derrida or the similar notion in Heidegger.  Of course Derrida&#8217;s use is a little more Hegelian than Heidegger&#8217;s (IMO).  There he not only wants to return to the original phenomena that allowed the text to be produced. He wants to focus on what was left out or excluded in the text as we have it.  And, since the text is always a finite and therefore incomplete representation of an infinite phenomena, that &#8220;left out&#8221; is always available.  And that was what I was trying to get at. </p>
<p>Texts are always <i>about</i> something and to correctly read the text we shouldn&#8217;t just focus on what the text says in its public meaning, nor in a way should we just worry about the author&#8217;s intent.  Rather we should place ourselves in the role of the original questioner trying to bring forth the truth that was sought after.  It is that bringing forth truth that is the point of the scriptures.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Green</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28945</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28945</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the book recommendation, Jim. I&#039;ll take a look at it.

Marc D&#039;s quotation of Joseph Smith is striking for a couple reasons. First, the prophet disavows interpretation--and then immediately describes a method of interpreting the scriptures. The interpretive method he describes is also quite similar to a line from Gadamer that I came across a few days ago: &quot;Truly, one can only understand a text if one has understood the question to which the text is an answer.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the book recommendation, Jim. I&#8217;ll take a look at it.</p>
<p>Marc D&#8217;s quotation of Joseph Smith is striking for a couple reasons. First, the prophet disavows interpretation&#8211;and then immediately describes a method of interpreting the scriptures. The interpretive method he describes is also quite similar to a line from Gadamer that I came across a few days ago: &#8220;Truly, one can only understand a text if one has understood the question to which the text is an answer.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28906</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 05:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28906</guid>
		<description>Two quick comments, then I have to force myself back to grading papers rather than reading this interesting discussion. 

In reponse #7, Jonathan Green points out that contemporary literary theories, including deconstruction, have their antecedents in discussions of biblical interpretation. That is an important point. It is also important, I think, to note that the usual way we understand what the scriptures mean originates in the 18th century in arguments against the Bible and the possibility that it contains revelation, arguments made by people like Thomas Paine. For a very good and reasonably brief overview of the connection between literary theory and biblical exegesis, read the first part of Hans Frei&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Eclipse of Biblical Narrative&lt;/i&gt;. I have some problems with Frei&#039;s response to that history, narrative theology (though I am also sympathetic to it), but his account of the history makes for good reading. 

Joe suggested (#9) that deconstruction doesn&#039;t allow us ever to reach the text. Of course there are lots of kinds of deconstruction, so he may be right about some. But I don&#039;t think he&#039;s right about Derrida&#039;s. Derrida&#039;s point isn&#039;t that we can&#039;t reach the text. His point is that if we make a connection to what the text points to, we do so by means of something extra-textual. The result it that our analysis of the text itself can open up a variety of possibilities if we don&#039;t have the extra-textual something available to tie the text to that at which it points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two quick comments, then I have to force myself back to grading papers rather than reading this interesting discussion. </p>
<p>In reponse #7, Jonathan Green points out that contemporary literary theories, including deconstruction, have their antecedents in discussions of biblical interpretation. That is an important point. It is also important, I think, to note that the usual way we understand what the scriptures mean originates in the 18th century in arguments against the Bible and the possibility that it contains revelation, arguments made by people like Thomas Paine. For a very good and reasonably brief overview of the connection between literary theory and biblical exegesis, read the first part of Hans Frei&#8217;s <i>The Eclipse of Biblical Narrative</i>. I have some problems with Frei&#8217;s response to that history, narrative theology (though I am also sympathetic to it), but his account of the history makes for good reading. </p>
<p>Joe suggested (#9) that deconstruction doesn&#8217;t allow us ever to reach the text. Of course there are lots of kinds of deconstruction, so he may be right about some. But I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s right about Derrida&#8217;s. Derrida&#8217;s point isn&#8217;t that we can&#8217;t reach the text. His point is that if we make a connection to what the text points to, we do so by means of something extra-textual. The result it that our analysis of the text itself can open up a variety of possibilities if we don&#8217;t have the extra-textual something available to tie the text to that at which it points.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28897</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28897</guid>
		<description>Clark,

Thank you for the clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clark,</p>
<p>Thank you for the clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc D.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/interpreting-scripture/#comment-28896</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1595#comment-28896</guid>
		<description>This is something Joseph Smith said:
&#039;What is the rule of interpretation? Just no interpretation at all. Understand it precisely as it reads. I have a key by which I understand the scriptures. I enquire, what was the question which drew out the answer, or caused Jesus to utter the parable? It is not national; it does not refer to Abraham, Israel or the Gentiles, in a national capacity, as some suppose. To ascertain its meaning, we must dig up the root and ascertain what it was that drew the saying out of Jesus.&#039;
 Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ,Vol. 5:261-62)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is something Joseph Smith said:<br />
&#8216;What is the rule of interpretation? Just no interpretation at all. Understand it precisely as it reads. I have a key by which I understand the scriptures. I enquire, what was the question which drew out the answer, or caused Jesus to utter the parable? It is not national; it does not refer to Abraham, Israel or the Gentiles, in a national capacity, as some suppose. To ascertain its meaning, we must dig up the root and ascertain what it was that drew the saying out of Jesus.&#8217;<br />
 Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ,Vol. 5:261-62)</p>
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