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	<title>Comments on: Holocaust as Metaphor</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Ivan Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29940</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29940</guid>
		<description>Jack - 

I&#039;m with you on that.  It&#039;s like the left/right distinction - the &quot;political compass&quot; I prefer may be a better or truer way to describe political leanings, but the rhetoric employed in public discourse is so geared toward the left/right binary that it&#039;s hard to get out of that way of thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack &#8211; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m with you on that.  It&#8217;s like the left/right distinction &#8211; the &#8220;political compass&#8221; I prefer may be a better or truer way to describe political leanings, but the rhetoric employed in public discourse is so geared toward the left/right binary that it&#8217;s hard to get out of that way of thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29937</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29937</guid>
		<description>Ivan, I&#039;m not sure that I buy it either, but the &quot;propoganda machine&quot; has bought and sold it as such for, lo, these many years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan, I&#8217;m not sure that I buy it either, but the &#8220;propoganda machine&#8221; has bought and sold it as such for, lo, these many years.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29930</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29930</guid>
		<description>I should add I don&#039;t agree with all the placing on the &quot;Political compass&quot; I linked to, but I do like the overall idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add I don&#8217;t agree with all the placing on the &#8220;Political compass&#8221; I linked to, but I do like the overall idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29928</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29928</guid>
		<description>Jack -

I don&#039;t buy the argument Naziism is an extreme evil of the right, especially since the Nazi party was a socialist party.

Hitler&#039;s extreme wasn&#039;t so much on the left or right, but on being authoritarian (which neither side of the political spectrum has a monoploy on)

see this website:
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html

That&#039;s how I prefer to think of political affiliations, rather than the overly simplistic left/right dichotomy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack -</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t buy the argument Naziism is an extreme evil of the right, especially since the Nazi party was a socialist party.</p>
<p>Hitler&#8217;s extreme wasn&#8217;t so much on the left or right, but on being authoritarian (which neither side of the political spectrum has a monoploy on)</p>
<p>see this website:<br />
<a href="http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html</a></p>
<p>That&#8217;s how I prefer to think of political affiliations, rather than the overly simplistic left/right dichotomy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29924</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29924</guid>
		<description>DKL : &quot;The propoganda machines pumped out as much or more hyperbole against the Communists and the Japanese as it did against the Germans&quot;

David, I&#039;m not sure this argument holds up today. No doubt such was the case during WWII and the decade immediatly following it, but since the sixties IMO &quot;communism&quot; and &quot;naziism&quot; have been treated quite differently by the U.S. propoganda machine. Inasmuch as one is an extreme evil of the &quot;left&quot; and the other an extreme evil of the &quot;right&quot;, the bias is obvious - regardless of the fact that the outcome of the two is essentially the same. (i.e., the cold blooded murder of millions irrespective of the difference in ideologies)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DKL : &#8220;The propoganda machines pumped out as much or more hyperbole against the Communists and the Japanese as it did against the Germans&#8221;</p>
<p>David, I&#8217;m not sure this argument holds up today. No doubt such was the case during WWII and the decade immediatly following it, but since the sixties IMO &#8220;communism&#8221; and &#8220;naziism&#8221; have been treated quite differently by the U.S. propoganda machine. Inasmuch as one is an extreme evil of the &#8220;left&#8221; and the other an extreme evil of the &#8220;right&#8221;, the bias is obvious &#8211; regardless of the fact that the outcome of the two is essentially the same. (i.e., the cold blooded murder of millions irrespective of the difference in ideologies)</p>
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		<title>By: David King Landrith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29921</link>
		<dc:creator>David King Landrith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29921</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;John Mansfield:&lt;/b&gt; Such massive investment in creating a symbol of All That Is Evil doesn&#8217;t have to go to waste once the war is won.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As with most cynical outlooks, your view lacks the sophistication to actually account for what has happened. The propoganda machines pumped out as much or more hyperbole against the Communists and the Japanese as it did against the Germans. And the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (or Tokyo War Crimes Ttribunal) after WWII led to a comparable number of executed Japanese leaders for things like the Nanking Massacre, where the Japanese Army murdered between 150,000 (according to the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal in 1948) and 300,000 (more recent estimates) unarmed Chineese over the course of 6 months. It is the creation of a mechanized industry to exterminate every last Jew that makes the Naziis especially evil.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;John Mansfield:&lt;/b&gt; When one needs a cheap swipe at an opponent, they&#8217;re available. When one is worried about an unprincipled group amassing power, the Nazi example is worth considering.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This basically agreeing with the entire thrust of this thread. One of its primary topics has been the misuse of Holocaust imagery.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;John Mansfield:&lt;/b&gt; It is weak though to think that a repetition of anything the Nazis did is a preparation for unleashing evil. Probably 90% of their work was the same as that of any ruling party.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#8217;m glad that your strong enough to realize this. Even so, what you say amounts to the conventional wisdom on the topic; it is, at any rate, beside the point. Nobody here is proposing that we go over, say, the minute details of Nazi transportation, tax, or drug regulation policy. (Although Nazi monetary policies&#8212;which are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; considered a necessary evil&#8212;have been the topic of some study, since inflation was a large problem and an important political issue in pre-WWII Germany.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><b>John Mansfield:</b> Such massive investment in creating a symbol of All That Is Evil doesn&rsquo;t have to go to waste once the war is won.</p></blockquote>
<p>As with most cynical outlooks, your view lacks the sophistication to actually account for what has happened. The propoganda machines pumped out as much or more hyperbole against the Communists and the Japanese as it did against the Germans. And the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (or Tokyo War Crimes Ttribunal) after WWII led to a comparable number of executed Japanese leaders for things like the Nanking Massacre, where the Japanese Army murdered between 150,000 (according to the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal in 1948) and 300,000 (more recent estimates) unarmed Chineese over the course of 6 months. It is the creation of a mechanized industry to exterminate every last Jew that makes the Naziis especially evil.</p>
<blockquote><p><b>John Mansfield:</b> When one needs a cheap swipe at an opponent, they&rsquo;re available. When one is worried about an unprincipled group amassing power, the Nazi example is worth considering.</p></blockquote>
<p>This basically agreeing with the entire thrust of this thread. One of its primary topics has been the misuse of Holocaust imagery.</p>
<blockquote><p><b>John Mansfield:</b> It is weak though to think that a repetition of anything the Nazis did is a preparation for unleashing evil. Probably 90% of their work was the same as that of any ruling party.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&rsquo;m glad that your strong enough to realize this. Even so, what you say amounts to the conventional wisdom on the topic; it is, at any rate, beside the point. Nobody here is proposing that we go over, say, the minute details of Nazi transportation, tax, or drug regulation policy. (Although Nazi monetary policies&mdash;which are <i>not</i> considered a necessary evil&mdash;have been the topic of some study, since inflation was a large problem and an important political issue in pre-WWII Germany.)</p>
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		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29917</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29917</guid>
		<description>Nazis are overblown.  For several years they were The Enemy and the full propaganda machinery of the nation made sure we hated them.  Take a look at this Texaco ad for example: http://www.lileks.com/institute/jetsam/4/index.html
Here&#039;s another: http://www.lileks.com/oldads/40s/2.html

It seems so over the top now, but it was as earnest as a seminary filmstrip.  Remember, too, that our image of the Nazis was built up before we knew of the Holocaust.  Such massive investment in creating a symbol of All That Is Evil doesn&#039;t have to go to waste once the war is won.  Decades later, Indiana Jones can still mow down truckloads of the swastika guys and it&#039;s good family fun.  They are equivalent to the robots used for massive PG violence in other movies, not really people.  It is interesting that we cling to a view of the Nazis that they shared, in their case in how they regarded the Jews.

Someday Nazis will become demythologized and be viewed as one more repugnant political apparatus, but not today.  Modern comparisons with Nazis have there uses.  When one needs a cheap swipe at an opponent, they&#039;re available.  When one is worried about an unprincipled group amassing power, the Nazi example is worth considering.  It is weak though to think that a repetition of anything the Nazis did is a preparation for unleashing evil.  Probably 90% of their work was the same as that of any ruling party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nazis are overblown.  For several years they were The Enemy and the full propaganda machinery of the nation made sure we hated them.  Take a look at this Texaco ad for example: <a href="http://www.lileks.com/institute/jetsam/4/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lileks.com/institute/jetsam/4/index.html</a><br />
Here&#8217;s another: <a href="http://www.lileks.com/oldads/40s/2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lileks.com/oldads/40s/2.html</a></p>
<p>It seems so over the top now, but it was as earnest as a seminary filmstrip.  Remember, too, that our image of the Nazis was built up before we knew of the Holocaust.  Such massive investment in creating a symbol of All That Is Evil doesn&#8217;t have to go to waste once the war is won.  Decades later, Indiana Jones can still mow down truckloads of the swastika guys and it&#8217;s good family fun.  They are equivalent to the robots used for massive PG violence in other movies, not really people.  It is interesting that we cling to a view of the Nazis that they shared, in their case in how they regarded the Jews.</p>
<p>Someday Nazis will become demythologized and be viewed as one more repugnant political apparatus, but not today.  Modern comparisons with Nazis have there uses.  When one needs a cheap swipe at an opponent, they&#8217;re available.  When one is worried about an unprincipled group amassing power, the Nazi example is worth considering.  It is weak though to think that a repetition of anything the Nazis did is a preparation for unleashing evil.  Probably 90% of their work was the same as that of any ruling party.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29912</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29912</guid>
		<description>DKL,

I&#039;ll learn to read you yet.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DKL,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll learn to read you yet.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Goble</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29910</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Goble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29910</guid>
		<description>Just a question, but at what time did the phrase &quot;nuclear holocaust&quot; arise and was the term linked to the holocaust that itself partook of Biblical language?  (i.e. the holocaust offering)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a question, but at what time did the phrase &#8220;nuclear holocaust&#8221; arise and was the term linked to the holocaust that itself partook of Biblical language?  (i.e. the holocaust offering)</p>
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		<title>By: David King Landrith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/holocaust-as-metaphor/#comment-29907</link>
		<dc:creator>David King Landrith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 05:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1624#comment-29907</guid>
		<description>Larry, my response to your headline was also in jest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, my response to your headline was also in jest.</p>
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