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	<title>Comments on: 12 Questions for Kathleen Flake</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Rob Briggs</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-36023</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-36023</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t quite finished the book yet but one new view emerging from my reading is that Joseph F. Smith, to a much greater extent than I had realized, is the architect of the modern Mormon church of the 20th &amp; 21st centuries. 

To advance his goal of achieving some degree of acceptance and tolerance for Mormonism in a rabidly anti-Mormon America, Joseph F. steered the church away from polygamy to monogamy; from the political and economic kingdom to the status of a denominational church; from Joseph&#039;s Smith&#039;s last revelation (plural marriage) to his First Vision; and from isolationist retreat from American religious pluralism to participation in pluralistic America. It&#039;s quite remarkable. And quite remarkable that he doesn&#039;t have more prominence in our thinking. How strange that there is no good biography of Joseph F., at least none that I can think of.

I wonder if Professor Flake is in agreement and if so, would care to elaborate on the central role of Joseph F. to the modern church. This may be overstating things a bit but based on my reading of Flake, I&#039;d be inclined to accept the argument that:

The modern Mormon church is the church that Joseph F. built.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t quite finished the book yet but one new view emerging from my reading is that Joseph F. Smith, to a much greater extent than I had realized, is the architect of the modern Mormon church of the 20th &#038; 21st centuries. </p>
<p>To advance his goal of achieving some degree of acceptance and tolerance for Mormonism in a rabidly anti-Mormon America, Joseph F. steered the church away from polygamy to monogamy; from the political and economic kingdom to the status of a denominational church; from Joseph&#8217;s Smith&#8217;s last revelation (plural marriage) to his First Vision; and from isolationist retreat from American religious pluralism to participation in pluralistic America. It&#8217;s quite remarkable. And quite remarkable that he doesn&#8217;t have more prominence in our thinking. How strange that there is no good biography of Joseph F., at least none that I can think of.</p>
<p>I wonder if Professor Flake is in agreement and if so, would care to elaborate on the central role of Joseph F. to the modern church. This may be overstating things a bit but based on my reading of Flake, I&#8217;d be inclined to accept the argument that:</p>
<p>The modern Mormon church is the church that Joseph F. built.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-33069</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-33069</guid>
		<description>Kathleen,

If the press had been present when Peter was heard to deny the Saviour three times, what would have been the political fallout? What would have happened if he hadn&#039;t? How does President Smith&#039;s experience differ from Peter&#039;s, if at all,  in terms of &quot;lying&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathleen,</p>
<p>If the press had been present when Peter was heard to deny the Saviour three times, what would have been the political fallout? What would have happened if he hadn&#8217;t? How does President Smith&#8217;s experience differ from Peter&#8217;s, if at all,  in terms of &#8220;lying&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-33037</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 21:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-33037</guid>
		<description>Here are two questions for Prof. Flake:

1.  The impeachment of Andrew Johnson was once viewed as something like historical trivia, but in recent years became active and relevant precedent when the Senate in our day had to run an impeachment trial.  Do you have any sense that the Smoot hearings might likewise become suddenly relevant at some point?

2.  I have sometimes felt that the experience of President Joseph F. Smith travelling to Washington and testifying before the committee -- which receives remarkably little comment in traditional histories of the Church -- was the key event in transforming the LDS position (the real one) on polygamy, rather than a spiritual prompting toward the Second Manifesto (I haven&#039;t heard the story told that way) or more practical considerations relating to politics and the Smoot question.  What was the impact of Pres. Smith going to Washington?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are two questions for Prof. Flake:</p>
<p>1.  The impeachment of Andrew Johnson was once viewed as something like historical trivia, but in recent years became active and relevant precedent when the Senate in our day had to run an impeachment trial.  Do you have any sense that the Smoot hearings might likewise become suddenly relevant at some point?</p>
<p>2.  I have sometimes felt that the experience of President Joseph F. Smith travelling to Washington and testifying before the committee &#8212; which receives remarkably little comment in traditional histories of the Church &#8212; was the key event in transforming the LDS position (the real one) on polygamy, rather than a spiritual prompting toward the Second Manifesto (I haven&#8217;t heard the story told that way) or more practical considerations relating to politics and the Smoot question.  What was the impact of Pres. Smith going to Washington?</p>
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		<title>By: Nate Oman</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-32375</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Oman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2004 00:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-32375</guid>
		<description>I would be interested in hearing what relationship if any Professor Flake sees between the legal hostility to Mormonism at the turn of the century and the legal hostility to corporations and trusts on the part of legal progressives during the same period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be interested in hearing what relationship if any Professor Flake sees between the legal hostility to Mormonism at the turn of the century and the legal hostility to corporations and trusts on the part of legal progressives during the same period.</p>
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		<title>By: David King Landrith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-32121</link>
		<dc:creator>David King Landrith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2004 05:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-32121</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know a great deal about the Smoot hearings. I&#039;ve read some of the more titillating excerpts in contexts where they used in an attempt to discredit this or that LDS claim or practice. I&#039;ve always been under the impression that the hearings were motivated mostly by vindictive and voyeuristic desire to confirm or extract every lurid detail they could dream up about Mormonism. In all likelihood, my impression is fairly common, even though it has all the earmarks of a vastly oversimplified point of view.

Thus, my question: To what degree do you view the hearings as legitimate use of governmental power? And how would you characterize the motivations that lead to them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know a great deal about the Smoot hearings. I&#8217;ve read some of the more titillating excerpts in contexts where they used in an attempt to discredit this or that LDS claim or practice. I&#8217;ve always been under the impression that the hearings were motivated mostly by vindictive and voyeuristic desire to confirm or extract every lurid detail they could dream up about Mormonism. In all likelihood, my impression is fairly common, even though it has all the earmarks of a vastly oversimplified point of view.</p>
<p>Thus, my question: To what degree do you view the hearings as legitimate use of governmental power? And how would you characterize the motivations that lead to them?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim F.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-30408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2004 05:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-30408</guid>
		<description>Narrative theology focuses on narrative as theology. Hans Frie was one of the initiators of the movement. See his &lt;i&gt;The Eclipse of Biblical Narrative&lt;/i&gt;. There is presently a huge literature on the topic. 

The basic insight/claim is that theology should focus on the narrative expression of faith (usually but not necessarily expressions in scripture) rather than on developing a metaphysical system that is often assumed to be the structure underlying scriptural and other narratives of faith. 

For a good overview of narrative theology, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theo.uu.nl/people/mwisse/espr1/espr1.html&quot;&gt;this paper&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Narrative theology focuses on narrative as theology. Hans Frie was one of the initiators of the movement. See his <i>The Eclipse of Biblical Narrative</i>. There is presently a huge literature on the topic. </p>
<p>The basic insight/claim is that theology should focus on the narrative expression of faith (usually but not necessarily expressions in scripture) rather than on developing a metaphysical system that is often assumed to be the structure underlying scriptural and other narratives of faith. </p>
<p>For a good overview of narrative theology, see <a href="http://www.theo.uu.nl/people/mwisse/espr1/espr1.html">this paper</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: clark</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-30346</link>
		<dc:creator>clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-30346</guid>
		<description>BTW - Jim, exactly what is narrative theology?  You&#039;ve mentioned it several times and I confess my ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW &#8211; Jim, exactly what is narrative theology?  You&#8217;ve mentioned it several times and I confess my ignorance.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-30345</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-30345</guid>
		<description>Any reactions to the recent Claremont conference and your participation there?  Any thoughts on what they are trying to do in terms of establishing a Mormon studies program?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any reactions to the recent Claremont conference and your participation there?  Any thoughts on what they are trying to do in terms of establishing a Mormon studies program?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben S.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-30303</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-30303</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious to know if there was an institutional reaction or response to her paper, &quot;&#039;Not to be Riten&#039; The Mormon Temple Rite as Oral Canon.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious to know if there was an institutional reaction or response to her paper, &#8220;&#8216;Not to be Riten&#8217; The Mormon Temple Rite as Oral Canon.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ethesis (Stephen M)</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/11/12-questions-for-kathleen-flake/#comment-30247</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethesis (Stephen M)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1628#comment-30247</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be curious about her thoughts regarding the neoCalvinist trend in LDS sociology (LDS members who conflate wealth with proof of God&#039;s Grace which comes from inherent merit, much like Calvinists thought that good fortune was proof of salvation, being a worthy vessel).

Having finally seen &lt;i&gt;Hero&lt;/i&gt; (and being tired of artistic tragedy that is unnecessary -- vs. the historically necessary heroic sacrifice) I&#039;m also curious how anyone could find that sex scene as objectionable as the ones more common to movies and what that says about LDS culturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be curious about her thoughts regarding the neoCalvinist trend in LDS sociology (LDS members who conflate wealth with proof of God&#8217;s Grace which comes from inherent merit, much like Calvinists thought that good fortune was proof of salvation, being a worthy vessel).</p>
<p>Having finally seen <i>Hero</i> (and being tired of artistic tragedy that is unnecessary &#8212; vs. the historically necessary heroic sacrifice) I&#8217;m also curious how anyone could find that sex scene as objectionable as the ones more common to movies and what that says about LDS culturally.</p>
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