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	<title>Comments on: International Church issues</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Bruce Andrew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-58599</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-58599</guid>
		<description>Brother deCoo --  You won&#039;t remember me, but I recall clearly an impressive missionary fireside you gave on the Book of Mormon in the Antwerp Branch meeting house in late 1983, when I was serving a mission in the Netherlands Amsterdam Mission.  Your eloquent and gripping synopsis of the basic story line revealed your intimate knowledge of this great book and your sensitivity to the context in which non-LDS Europeans would view it.

Aware from that 21-year-old experience of how thoroughly you know the Book of Mormon, I trust you already have a clear understanding of why for American members love of country and love of the gospel are bound together.  In line with what John Fowles and other commentators have said, the establishment of the United States as a free land was foretold by Nephi as a prerequisite to the restoration of the gospel to the earth.  The scriptural text leaves no doubt that God directed the preparation of this land of promise for the fulfillment of His great purposes.

The patriotism most American Latter-day Saints feel is an appropriate expression of gratitude to God for the gifts of freedom in America that made possible the reestablishment of Christ&#039;s church.  The display of American flags on the grounds of temples in the U.S. seems a fitting extension of this sense of appreciation -- and, I should add, a symbolic reminder that we as a church are committed to the principles upon which the twelfth Article of Faith is grounded.

I concede that Americans could stand to be more aware of the differing cultures from which our membership is drawn, and that our leaders in particular ought to be sensitive enough to deliver messages during the conferences of the Church that have the broadest, culture-blind references.  Like Ken Jennings (and no, he won&#039;t remember me, though I was in the Yongsan Servicemen&#039;s Branch with him in Korea when he was a high school senior), I&#039;ve seen the Church thrive in multicultural environments where members from many cultures share the blessings of fellowship and understanding without prejudice or division.  In any case, those of us Americans who have the privilege of living our day-to-day lives in other countries typically do understand this important dynamic in an increasingly diverse and international church.  But it is unrealistic to expect that the many ordinary U.S. Saints who only ever leave their country for short vacations (if at all) will feel the need to internalize a sense of international cultural sensitivity or have the occasion exercise it.

Brother deCoo, I think you, who understand these issues, bear a responsibility to help educate European Saints as to the true nature of American members&#039; love of country and its relation to their faith.  It behooves you also to help explain to Americans why Europeans generally don&#039;t seem to feel similar passion about their own nations of origin.  (I don&#039;t profess to understand it, though I have some ideas insufficiently developed to present in this forum.)  You, who are in the rare position of having broad experience observing both American and European cultures, can best bridge gaps in understanding by softing the harder edges of opinions held about those on the other side of the cultural divide.  In this case, it seems it&#039;s the Europeans whose opinions seem to have become most hardened.

In truth, each of us, regardless of cultural origin, should live by the principle of putting ourselves in the other person&#039;s shoes.  We should be sensitive to the feelings and solicitous of the concerns of others while downplaying our own; quick to listen, slow to speak; anxious never to give or take offense; speedy to forgive, reluctant to accuse.  If we do this, cultural differences melt away and we become brothers and sisters in a flagless, borderless Zion.  The discourse you&#039;ve begun will certainly help this process.  Thanks for what you&#039;ve done.

-- Bruce Andrew (American Foreign Service Officer; Vienna, Austria)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother deCoo &#8212;  You won&#8217;t remember me, but I recall clearly an impressive missionary fireside you gave on the Book of Mormon in the Antwerp Branch meeting house in late 1983, when I was serving a mission in the Netherlands Amsterdam Mission.  Your eloquent and gripping synopsis of the basic story line revealed your intimate knowledge of this great book and your sensitivity to the context in which non-LDS Europeans would view it.</p>
<p>Aware from that 21-year-old experience of how thoroughly you know the Book of Mormon, I trust you already have a clear understanding of why for American members love of country and love of the gospel are bound together.  In line with what John Fowles and other commentators have said, the establishment of the United States as a free land was foretold by Nephi as a prerequisite to the restoration of the gospel to the earth.  The scriptural text leaves no doubt that God directed the preparation of this land of promise for the fulfillment of His great purposes.</p>
<p>The patriotism most American Latter-day Saints feel is an appropriate expression of gratitude to God for the gifts of freedom in America that made possible the reestablishment of Christ&#8217;s church.  The display of American flags on the grounds of temples in the U.S. seems a fitting extension of this sense of appreciation &#8212; and, I should add, a symbolic reminder that we as a church are committed to the principles upon which the twelfth Article of Faith is grounded.</p>
<p>I concede that Americans could stand to be more aware of the differing cultures from which our membership is drawn, and that our leaders in particular ought to be sensitive enough to deliver messages during the conferences of the Church that have the broadest, culture-blind references.  Like Ken Jennings (and no, he won&#8217;t remember me, though I was in the Yongsan Servicemen&#8217;s Branch with him in Korea when he was a high school senior), I&#8217;ve seen the Church thrive in multicultural environments where members from many cultures share the blessings of fellowship and understanding without prejudice or division.  In any case, those of us Americans who have the privilege of living our day-to-day lives in other countries typically do understand this important dynamic in an increasingly diverse and international church.  But it is unrealistic to expect that the many ordinary U.S. Saints who only ever leave their country for short vacations (if at all) will feel the need to internalize a sense of international cultural sensitivity or have the occasion exercise it.</p>
<p>Brother deCoo, I think you, who understand these issues, bear a responsibility to help educate European Saints as to the true nature of American members&#8217; love of country and its relation to their faith.  It behooves you also to help explain to Americans why Europeans generally don&#8217;t seem to feel similar passion about their own nations of origin.  (I don&#8217;t profess to understand it, though I have some ideas insufficiently developed to present in this forum.)  You, who are in the rare position of having broad experience observing both American and European cultures, can best bridge gaps in understanding by softing the harder edges of opinions held about those on the other side of the cultural divide.  In this case, it seems it&#8217;s the Europeans whose opinions seem to have become most hardened.</p>
<p>In truth, each of us, regardless of cultural origin, should live by the principle of putting ourselves in the other person&#8217;s shoes.  We should be sensitive to the feelings and solicitous of the concerns of others while downplaying our own; quick to listen, slow to speak; anxious never to give or take offense; speedy to forgive, reluctant to accuse.  If we do this, cultural differences melt away and we become brothers and sisters in a flagless, borderless Zion.  The discourse you&#8217;ve begun will certainly help this process.  Thanks for what you&#8217;ve done.</p>
<p>&#8211; Bruce Andrew (American Foreign Service Officer; Vienna, Austria)</p>
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		<title>By: Wilfried</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25692</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25692</guid>
		<description>Well, if it&#039;s really Ken and if he is reading these comments, I want to say a heartfelt thanks, not only for his breathtaking performance and his kindness, but for the wonderful impact he has on the name and image of the Church. And he is identified as a Mormon, not as an LDS!   (by the way, to those who have no idea what an LDS is, when they hear it on radio or TV, they wonder who an Eldeeyes is, or an El Dies, or an Eldeajez). 
Thank you again, Ken!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if it&#8217;s really Ken and if he is reading these comments, I want to say a heartfelt thanks, not only for his breathtaking performance and his kindness, but for the wonderful impact he has on the name and image of the Church. And he is identified as a Mormon, not as an LDS!   (by the way, to those who have no idea what an LDS is, when they hear it on radio or TV, they wonder who an Eldeeyes is, or an El Dies, or an Eldeajez).<br />
Thank you again, Ken!</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Jennings</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25690</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Jennings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25690</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s sort of hard to prove I&#039;m Ken Jennings in this forum.  Should I tell you what the capital of Swaziland is, or what opera Puccini left incomplete at his death?  Surely anyone--even non-Jeopardy champs!--could Google up &quot;Mbabane&quot; and &quot;Turandot.&quot;  Bryce and the other ex-Quiz Bowl guys wouldn&#039;t even have to resort to Google.

Jeopardy! put the kibosh on my blog when I tried to start one over the summer, afraid that media outlets would purloin quotes from it when Jeopardy! wouldn&#039;t grant them interviews.  But it&#039;s an idea I&#039;d like to come back to.

I guess I should post something mildly on topic before I return to lurking.  As an American Mormon who grew up overseas, I&#039;ve been fascinated by the turns this thread has taken, especially as it&#039;s touched on the problem of anti-Americanism.  I&#039;m never sure if &quot;anti-Americanism,&quot; as used in this thread, refers to something I can understand (after all, we haven&#039;t always been the best stewards of our superpower status) or something I disagree with (holding problems with our government against individual American citizens personally, or blindly condemning all things American, from Mark Twain to Pop Rocks, just because of isolated disagreements over policy).  Anti-American feeling, whether it&#039;s the just variety or not, is going to be on the rise worldwide in the years to come, and the Church&#039;s reputation could take a huge overseas hit as a result, depending on how successful we are at &quot;re-branding&quot; ourselves as an international church.  Maybe I&#039;m stating the obvious here...I assume our full-time missionaries in Europe and elsewhere are already dealing with this problem every day.

I&#039;m heartened by occasions where I&#039;ve seen an international &quot;community of saints&quot; form, seemingly blind to national boundaries and devoid of the more divisive aspects of patriotism.  I once attended a Singapore branch where U.S. and Commonwealth expatriates served and worshipped happily alongside the native Singaporean members, ethnically Chinese and Malay.  The unity was really quite seamless.  When the Area Presidency chose to divide the unit into two branches, one native and one expat, to allow for more leadership opportunities among locals, it was a tough, tough time for all concerned.  Tears were shed, as President Monson might say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s sort of hard to prove I&#8217;m Ken Jennings in this forum.  Should I tell you what the capital of Swaziland is, or what opera Puccini left incomplete at his death?  Surely anyone&#8211;even non-Jeopardy champs!&#8211;could Google up &#8220;Mbabane&#8221; and &#8220;Turandot.&#8221;  Bryce and the other ex-Quiz Bowl guys wouldn&#8217;t even have to resort to Google.</p>
<p>Jeopardy! put the kibosh on my blog when I tried to start one over the summer, afraid that media outlets would purloin quotes from it when Jeopardy! wouldn&#8217;t grant them interviews.  But it&#8217;s an idea I&#8217;d like to come back to.</p>
<p>I guess I should post something mildly on topic before I return to lurking.  As an American Mormon who grew up overseas, I&#8217;ve been fascinated by the turns this thread has taken, especially as it&#8217;s touched on the problem of anti-Americanism.  I&#8217;m never sure if &#8220;anti-Americanism,&#8221; as used in this thread, refers to something I can understand (after all, we haven&#8217;t always been the best stewards of our superpower status) or something I disagree with (holding problems with our government against individual American citizens personally, or blindly condemning all things American, from Mark Twain to Pop Rocks, just because of isolated disagreements over policy).  Anti-American feeling, whether it&#8217;s the just variety or not, is going to be on the rise worldwide in the years to come, and the Church&#8217;s reputation could take a huge overseas hit as a result, depending on how successful we are at &#8220;re-branding&#8221; ourselves as an international church.  Maybe I&#8217;m stating the obvious here&#8230;I assume our full-time missionaries in Europe and elsewhere are already dealing with this problem every day.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m heartened by occasions where I&#8217;ve seen an international &#8220;community of saints&#8221; form, seemingly blind to national boundaries and devoid of the more divisive aspects of patriotism.  I once attended a Singapore branch where U.S. and Commonwealth expatriates served and worshipped happily alongside the native Singaporean members, ethnically Chinese and Malay.  The unity was really quite seamless.  When the Area Presidency chose to divide the unit into two branches, one native and one expat, to allow for more leadership opportunities among locals, it was a tough, tough time for all concerned.  Tears were shed, as President Monson might say.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mansfield</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25689</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mansfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25689</guid>
		<description>Did he use proportional fonts or superscripting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did he use proportional fonts or superscripting?</p>
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		<title>By: Bryce I</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25688</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25688</guid>
		<description>Also for what it&#039;s worth, my uncle sings in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, and as I recall, he said that the decision to have Sis. Domiciano sing came from the top at the last minute.  He was impressed with her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also for what it&#8217;s worth, my uncle sings in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, and as I recall, he said that the decision to have Sis. Domiciano sing came from the top at the last minute.  He was impressed with her.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryce I</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25687</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25687</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, as far as I can tell, that&#039;s really Ken.

A) He used the same email address as the real Ken (assuming that the real Ken posted here previously)
B) He&#039;s funny like Ken
C) He included the &quot;!&quot; in Jeopardy!.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, as far as I can tell, that&#8217;s really Ken.</p>
<p>A) He used the same email address as the real Ken (assuming that the real Ken posted here previously)<br />
B) He&#8217;s funny like Ken<br />
C) He included the &#8220;!&#8221; in Jeopardy!.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25686</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25686</guid>
		<description>With regard to Liriel Domiciano, I remember reading that she was invited by Pres. Hinckley because he heard her sing at the rededication of the Temple in Brasil.  I suspect that, more than the fact that she was the winner of the pop idol contest, was the reason she was invited to sing.  Members of the Church around the world were grateful to hear her (and Brasilians I know especially felt a part of everything).

Do we sometimes fall all over ourselves to hold up LDS folks who do well in something or other?  No doubt.  But I&#039;m reasonably certain that in some future day, &quot;Who is Ken Jennings?&quot; will be the Jeopardy question/answer to &quot;This Mormon blew everyone way on Jeopardy! but was never asked to speak at General Conference.&quot;  (It&#039;s an little known rule in the Church that you can&#039;t read the top ten on Letterman and then speak at General Conference.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to Liriel Domiciano, I remember reading that she was invited by Pres. Hinckley because he heard her sing at the rededication of the Temple in Brasil.  I suspect that, more than the fact that she was the winner of the pop idol contest, was the reason she was invited to sing.  Members of the Church around the world were grateful to hear her (and Brasilians I know especially felt a part of everything).</p>
<p>Do we sometimes fall all over ourselves to hold up LDS folks who do well in something or other?  No doubt.  But I&#8217;m reasonably certain that in some future day, &#8220;Who is Ken Jennings?&#8221; will be the Jeopardy question/answer to &#8220;This Mormon blew everyone way on Jeopardy! but was never asked to speak at General Conference.&#8221;  (It&#8217;s an little known rule in the Church that you can&#8217;t read the top ten on Letterman and then speak at General Conference.)</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25684</link>
		<dc:creator>danithew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25684</guid>
		<description>Hint: that&#039;s a line from a sketch involving a very dead bird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hint: that&#8217;s a line from a sketch involving a very dead bird.</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25683</link>
		<dc:creator>danithew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25683</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not prepared to pursue my line of inquiry any longer as I think this is getting too silly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not prepared to pursue my line of inquiry any longer as I think this is getting too silly!</p>
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		<title>By: A creepy fake Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/international-church-issues/#comment-25680</link>
		<dc:creator>A creepy fake Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1457#comment-25680</guid>
		<description>It would have worked too, if it hadn&#039;t been for you meddling bloggernackers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would have worked too, if it hadn&#8217;t been for you meddling bloggernackers!</p>
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