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	<title>Comments on: Galen, Holmes &amp; Hot Drinks</title>
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		<title>By: John Young</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25169</link>
		<dc:creator>John Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25169</guid>
		<description>This connection between humor theory and the WoW may be worth looking into, but we need a more sound understanding of the theories propounded by Galen and his redactors right off the top.  Humor theory held that the body maintains a balance of four basic humors--blood, phlegm, black bile, and yellow bile--which correspond to temperature (hot or cold) and moisture (wet or dry).  Though I need to refresh my memory (it&#039;s been awhile since my undergrad medical history class), I think blood is hot and dry, phlegm cold and wet, black bile cold and dry, and yellow bile hot and wet (phlegm and yellow bile may be reversed, I can&#039;t remember).  It was thought that each person was dominated by one of the humors--hence the four personalities (sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, melancholic).

If the level of any one of these humors was out of balance, the body became inflicted with some kind of illness, either of body or of mind.  Bleeding, cupping, use of natural laxatives, etc. were used to treat humoral imbalance.  Too much cold was just as much a problem as too much heat in this pre-modern view of physiology.  This being the case, why does the WoW not forbid excessively cold water as well as hot drinks?

Still, this theory may hold some merit.  In order to comprehend the connection, one would need to research the folk medicine of eighteenth and nineteenth century American folk medicine, looking for both theory and practice.  As has been correctly pointed out, humor theory changed significantly, both chronologically and geographically, over its extraordinarily long life.  It is impossible to generalize for any specific place and time without conducting a very thorough investigation.

In the end, we must acknowledge that the WoW is a very complex document with a long and complex history.  On the one hand, it is laden with folk medicine (e.g., tobacco is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle) and borrowings from other religious traditions (e.g., teetotaling, eating meat sparingly, etc.) and thus very much arises from its context.  Yet on the other hand, it transcends its context (to say one will be physically healthy, rather than simply spiritually-blessed, by following this law is really significant).  So Bushman&#039;s argument that Joseph both arose from and transcended his time continues to hold true.

Widtsoe&#039;s theory about tannic acid sounds like yet another effort (perhaps he was the origin of this trend) to &quot;prove&quot; the validity of Mormonism via scientific or other intellectual discovery, much like the linkage of the Mayan feathered-serpent god with the Savior.  It may hold some amount of truth, but it hardly serves as total validation for our beliefs.  And excessive adherence to such theories can lead to trouble.  Case it point--a group of young men in a South African branch I served in as a missionary took to castigating their leaders for drinking bush tea (rooibos)--something nearly every household, including most Mormons, in South Africa drinks--because it contained tannic acid.  They began to preach tannic teetotaling in youth meetings (unfortunately, the entire young men&#039;s presidency were the ringleaders of this movement) and young adult gatherings, and they nearly became convinced that their branch president, the missionaries, etc. were in an advanced state of apostasy because they drank Coke or Rooibos.  Fortunately, a very powerful &quot;clarify the doctrine&quot; fireside, featuring myself and the branch president staved off an advanced secret combination.  I found out recently that the most ardent anti-rooibos proponent is now the branch president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This connection between humor theory and the WoW may be worth looking into, but we need a more sound understanding of the theories propounded by Galen and his redactors right off the top.  Humor theory held that the body maintains a balance of four basic humors&#8211;blood, phlegm, black bile, and yellow bile&#8211;which correspond to temperature (hot or cold) and moisture (wet or dry).  Though I need to refresh my memory (it&#8217;s been awhile since my undergrad medical history class), I think blood is hot and dry, phlegm cold and wet, black bile cold and dry, and yellow bile hot and wet (phlegm and yellow bile may be reversed, I can&#8217;t remember).  It was thought that each person was dominated by one of the humors&#8211;hence the four personalities (sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, melancholic).</p>
<p>If the level of any one of these humors was out of balance, the body became inflicted with some kind of illness, either of body or of mind.  Bleeding, cupping, use of natural laxatives, etc. were used to treat humoral imbalance.  Too much cold was just as much a problem as too much heat in this pre-modern view of physiology.  This being the case, why does the WoW not forbid excessively cold water as well as hot drinks?</p>
<p>Still, this theory may hold some merit.  In order to comprehend the connection, one would need to research the folk medicine of eighteenth and nineteenth century American folk medicine, looking for both theory and practice.  As has been correctly pointed out, humor theory changed significantly, both chronologically and geographically, over its extraordinarily long life.  It is impossible to generalize for any specific place and time without conducting a very thorough investigation.</p>
<p>In the end, we must acknowledge that the WoW is a very complex document with a long and complex history.  On the one hand, it is laden with folk medicine (e.g., tobacco is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle) and borrowings from other religious traditions (e.g., teetotaling, eating meat sparingly, etc.) and thus very much arises from its context.  Yet on the other hand, it transcends its context (to say one will be physically healthy, rather than simply spiritually-blessed, by following this law is really significant).  So Bushman&#8217;s argument that Joseph both arose from and transcended his time continues to hold true.</p>
<p>Widtsoe&#8217;s theory about tannic acid sounds like yet another effort (perhaps he was the origin of this trend) to &#8220;prove&#8221; the validity of Mormonism via scientific or other intellectual discovery, much like the linkage of the Mayan feathered-serpent god with the Savior.  It may hold some amount of truth, but it hardly serves as total validation for our beliefs.  And excessive adherence to such theories can lead to trouble.  Case it point&#8211;a group of young men in a South African branch I served in as a missionary took to castigating their leaders for drinking bush tea (rooibos)&#8211;something nearly every household, including most Mormons, in South Africa drinks&#8211;because it contained tannic acid.  They began to preach tannic teetotaling in youth meetings (unfortunately, the entire young men&#8217;s presidency were the ringleaders of this movement) and young adult gatherings, and they nearly became convinced that their branch president, the missionaries, etc. were in an advanced state of apostasy because they drank Coke or Rooibos.  Fortunately, a very powerful &#8220;clarify the doctrine&#8221; fireside, featuring myself and the branch president staved off an advanced secret combination.  I found out recently that the most ardent anti-rooibos proponent is now the branch president.</p>
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		<title>By: John Young</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25167</link>
		<dc:creator>John Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25167</guid>
		<description>This connection between humor theory and the WoW may be worth looking into, but we need a more sound understanding of the theories propounded by Galen and his redactors right off the top.  Humor theory held that the body maintains a balance of four basic humors--blood, phlegm, black bile, and yellow bile--which correspond to temperature (hot or cold) and moisture (wet or dry).  Though I need to refresh my memory (it&#039;s been awhile since my undergrad medical history class), I think blood is hot and dry, phlegm cold and wet, black bile cold and dry, and yellow bile hot and wet (phlegm and yellow bile may be reversed, I can&#039;t remember).  It was thought that each person was dominated by one of the humors--hence the four personalities (sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, melancholic).

If the level of any one of these humors was out of balance, the body became inflicted with some kind of illness, either of body or of mind.  Bleeding, cupping, use of natural laxatives, etc. were used to treat humoral imbalance.  Too much cold was just as much a problem as too much heat in this pre-modern view of physiology.  This being the case, why does the WoW not forbid excessively cold water as well as hot drinks?

Still, this theory may hold some merit.  In order to comprehend the connection, one would need to research the folk medicine of eighteenth and nineteenth century American folk medicine, looking for both theory and practice.  As has been correctly pointed out, humor theory changed significantly, both chronologically and geographically, over its extraordinarily long life.  It is impossible to generalize for any specific place and time without conducting a very thorough investigation.

In the end, we must acknowledge that the WoW is a very complex document with a long and complex history.  On the one hand, it is laden with folk medicine (e.g., tobacco is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle) and borrowings from other religious traditions (e.g., teetotaling, eating meat sparingly, etc.) and thus very much arises from its context.  Yet on the other hand, it transcends its context (to say one will be physically healthy, rather than simply spiritually-blessed, by following this law is really significant).  So Bushman&#039;s argument that Joseph both arose from and transcended his time continues to hold true.

Widtsoe&#039;s theory about tannic acid sounds like yet another effort (perhaps he was the origin of this trend) to &quot;prove&quot; the validity of Mormonism via scientific or other intellectual discovery, much like the linkage of the Mayan feathered-serpent god with the Savior.  It may hold some amount of truth, but it hardly serves as total validation for our beliefs.  And excessive adherence to such theories can lead to trouble.  Case it point--a group of young men in a South African branch I served in as a missionary took to castigating their leaders for drinking bush tea (rooibos)--something nearly every household, including most Mormons, in South Africa drinks--because it contained tannic acid.  They began to preach tannic teetotaling in youth meetings (unfortunately, the entire young men&#039;s presidency were the ringleaders of this movement) and young adult gatherings, and they nearly became convinced that their branch president, the missionaries, etc. were in an advanced state of apostasy because they drank Coke or Rooibos.  Fortunately, a very powerful &quot;clarify the doctrine&quot; fireside, featuring myself and the branch president staved off an advanced secret combination.  I found out recently that the most ardent anti-rooibos proponent is now the branch president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This connection between humor theory and the WoW may be worth looking into, but we need a more sound understanding of the theories propounded by Galen and his redactors right off the top.  Humor theory held that the body maintains a balance of four basic humors&#8211;blood, phlegm, black bile, and yellow bile&#8211;which correspond to temperature (hot or cold) and moisture (wet or dry).  Though I need to refresh my memory (it&#8217;s been awhile since my undergrad medical history class), I think blood is hot and dry, phlegm cold and wet, black bile cold and dry, and yellow bile hot and wet (phlegm and yellow bile may be reversed, I can&#8217;t remember).  It was thought that each person was dominated by one of the humors&#8211;hence the four personalities (sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, melancholic).</p>
<p>If the level of any one of these humors was out of balance, the body became inflicted with some kind of illness, either of body or of mind.  Bleeding, cupping, use of natural laxatives, etc. were used to treat humoral imbalance.  Too much cold was just as much a problem as too much heat in this pre-modern view of physiology.  This being the case, why does the WoW not forbid excessively cold water as well as hot drinks?</p>
<p>Still, this theory may hold some merit.  In order to comprehend the connection, one would need to research the folk medicine of eighteenth and nineteenth century American folk medicine, looking for both theory and practice.  As has been correctly pointed out, humor theory changed significantly, both chronologically and geographically, over its extraordinarily long life.  It is impossible to generalize for any specific place and time without conducting a very thorough investigation.</p>
<p>In the end, we must acknowledge that the WoW is a very complex document with a long and complex history.  On the one hand, it is laden with folk medicine (e.g., tobacco is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle) and borrowings from other religious traditions (e.g., teetotaling, eating meat sparingly, etc.) and thus very much arises from its context.  Yet on the other hand, it transcends its context (to say one will be physically healthy, rather than simply spiritually-blessed, by following this law is really significant).  So Bushman&#8217;s argument that Joseph both arose from and transcended his time continues to hold true.</p>
<p>Widtsoe&#8217;s theory about tannic acid sounds like yet another effort (perhaps he was the origin of this trend) to &#8220;prove&#8221; the validity of Mormonism via scientific or other intellectual discovery, much like the linkage of the Mayan feathered-serpent god with the Savior.  It may hold some amount of truth, but it hardly serves as total validation for our beliefs.  And excessive adherence to such theories can lead to trouble.  Case it point&#8211;a group of young men in a South African branch I served in as a missionary took to castigating their leaders for drinking bush tea (rooibos)&#8211;something nearly every household, including most Mormons, in South Africa drinks&#8211;because it contained tannic acid.  They began to preach tannic teetotaling in youth meetings (unfortunately, the entire young men&#8217;s presidency were the ringleaders of this movement) and young adult gatherings, and they nearly became convinced that their branch president, the missionaries, etc. were in an advanced state of apostasy because they drank Coke or Rooibos.  Fortunately, a very powerful &#8220;clarify the doctrine&#8221; fireside, featuring myself and the branch president staved off an advanced secret combination.  I found out recently that the most ardent anti-rooibos proponent is now the branch president.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25145</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stapley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25145</guid>
		<description>Justin
Kudos on your reference to the Widtsoe book, it is a classic.  I will, however, venture to make a couple of clarifications.  Widstoe was speaking from a very limited scientific perspective.  In that book he also talks about the â€œEtherâ€? (the antecedent to Einsteinâ€™s relativity).  I donâ€™t mention that to say that he was fallacious, but to illustrate that his perspective was limited.  As such, there is a huge diversity of tannins (much as there are lots of types of carbohydrates).  Some, in their purified and modified forms are used in tanning.  Most are passive and many are antioxidants.  The tannins from oak and acorns are quite different than those in tea.

Sugar and salt both have the property of making animal tissue hard.  But we need salt to survive!  To use Widtsoeâ€™s example as a contemporary justification for the WoW is not only anachronistic, but also wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin<br />
Kudos on your reference to the Widtsoe book, it is a classic.  I will, however, venture to make a couple of clarifications.  Widstoe was speaking from a very limited scientific perspective.  In that book he also talks about the â€œEtherâ€? (the antecedent to Einsteinâ€™s relativity).  I donâ€™t mention that to say that he was fallacious, but to illustrate that his perspective was limited.  As such, there is a huge diversity of tannins (much as there are lots of types of carbohydrates).  Some, in their purified and modified forms are used in tanning.  Most are passive and many are antioxidants.  The tannins from oak and acorns are quite different than those in tea.</p>
<p>Sugar and salt both have the property of making animal tissue hard.  But we need salt to survive!  To use Widtsoeâ€™s example as a contemporary justification for the WoW is not only anachronistic, but also wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Lybbert</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25123</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Lybbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25123</guid>
		<description>Although many people who post on this blog disagree with me about when the WoW applies, I believe we all agree it is some form of revelation.  We have also heard about the health benefits of following the WoW, just as I&#039;ve heard of the financial management benefits people have when donating money to several kinds of charities (apparently, on average, donors know more about financial management than non-donors).  I don&#039;t believe financial management skills or health benefits to be reasons to pay tithing or follow the WoW, although I find them interesting &quot;dicta.&quot;

Since many modern investigators immediately wonder why coffee and tea are prohibited (and seem to accept the caffeine or tannic acid stories), it isn&#039;t hard for me to accept that 19th century investigators probably used their understanding of health and medicine to rationalize the WoW&#039;s prohibitions as well.

For the record, I have heard the tannic acid story, and understood it to explain away why coffee is prohibited, but chocolate is OK, and nobody agrees on caffeinated sodas.  Indians in the part of California where I grew up made acorn flour, but had to get rid of the tannic acid in the acorns to do so.

And, for the record, I would prefer to drink caffeinated sodas if the alternative were contaminated water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although many people who post on this blog disagree with me about when the WoW applies, I believe we all agree it is some form of revelation.  We have also heard about the health benefits of following the WoW, just as I&#8217;ve heard of the financial management benefits people have when donating money to several kinds of charities (apparently, on average, donors know more about financial management than non-donors).  I don&#8217;t believe financial management skills or health benefits to be reasons to pay tithing or follow the WoW, although I find them interesting &#8220;dicta.&#8221;</p>
<p>Since many modern investigators immediately wonder why coffee and tea are prohibited (and seem to accept the caffeine or tannic acid stories), it isn&#8217;t hard for me to accept that 19th century investigators probably used their understanding of health and medicine to rationalize the WoW&#8217;s prohibitions as well.</p>
<p>For the record, I have heard the tannic acid story, and understood it to explain away why coffee is prohibited, but chocolate is OK, and nobody agrees on caffeinated sodas.  Indians in the part of California where I grew up made acorn flour, but had to get rid of the tannic acid in the acorns to do so.</p>
<p>And, for the record, I would prefer to drink caffeinated sodas if the alternative were contaminated water.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25120</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25120</guid>
		<description>I looked into some of Widtsoe&#039;s writings and found the following passage in his book Joseph Smith as Scientist (pp. 92-93):  

&quot;Besides caffeine, both tea and coffee contain an astringent known as tannic acid. In coffee this substance is present only in small quantity, but in tea from four to twelve percent occurs. Tannic acid is the substance found in oak bark, and has the property of making animal tissues hardâ€”that is, makes leather of them. The habitual tea drinker subjects the delicate lining of the stomach and intestines to the action of this powerful drug.&quot;

Sounds similar to the argument made by my mission companion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked into some of Widtsoe&#8217;s writings and found the following passage in his book Joseph Smith as Scientist (pp. 92-93):  </p>
<p>&#8220;Besides caffeine, both tea and coffee contain an astringent known as tannic acid. In coffee this substance is present only in small quantity, but in tea from four to twelve percent occurs. Tannic acid is the substance found in oak bark, and has the property of making animal tissues hardâ€”that is, makes leather of them. The habitual tea drinker subjects the delicate lining of the stomach and intestines to the action of this powerful drug.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds similar to the argument made by my mission companion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ethesis (Stephen M)</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25114</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethesis (Stephen M)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25114</guid>
		<description>Hmm, not to make too much out of history or the early temperance movement or anything else, but the term &quot;hot drinks&quot; had a specific cultural meaning -- coffee and tea -- at the time of the revelation that is the Word of Wisdom.

You are all too young to remember a time when young children were considered too young to be allowed coffee or tea, but that general use and approach was a part of the non-LDS world when I was young.

Anyway.

Visit my blog, http://ethesis.blogspot.com/

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, not to make too much out of history or the early temperance movement or anything else, but the term &#8220;hot drinks&#8221; had a specific cultural meaning &#8212; coffee and tea &#8212; at the time of the revelation that is the Word of Wisdom.</p>
<p>You are all too young to remember a time when young children were considered too young to be allowed coffee or tea, but that general use and approach was a part of the non-LDS world when I was young.</p>
<p>Anyway.</p>
<p>Visit my blog, <a href="http://ethesis.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://ethesis.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>:)</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25075</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stapley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25075</guid>
		<description>I wonder if we fed cattle coffee, then we could make wallets out of the stomachs with little extra processing?  I have to admit that before today, I had never heard the tannin thing.  And I donâ€™t want to belabor the issue, but I am completely astounded.  For the record: whole grains (e.g., whole wheat) have tannins in them â€“ hence a darker color.  Maybe this is why the sacrament is only true with white bread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if we fed cattle coffee, then we could make wallets out of the stomachs with little extra processing?  I have to admit that before today, I had never heard the tannin thing.  And I donâ€™t want to belabor the issue, but I am completely astounded.  For the record: whole grains (e.g., whole wheat) have tannins in them â€“ hence a darker color.  Maybe this is why the sacrament is only true with white bread.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25068</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25068</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  I had a missionary companion who told investigators that they should avoid coffee and tea because (1) they contain tannins;(2) tannins are used in tanning animal skins to make leather;(3) and one would be crazy to keep drinking any substance that would reduce your stomach lining into something resembling leather.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  I had a missionary companion who told investigators that they should avoid coffee and tea because (1) they contain tannins;(2) tannins are used in tanning animal skins to make leather;(3) and one would be crazy to keep drinking any substance that would reduce your stomach lining into something resembling leather.</p>
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		<title>By: jpatch</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25062</link>
		<dc:creator>jpatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25062</guid>
		<description>Slight digression: The term &quot;humor&quot; has been retained in immunology (ie. humoral immunity.) It&#039;s the arm of the immune response that produces antibodies, which circulate in our blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slight digression: The term &#8220;humor&#8221; has been retained in immunology (ie. humoral immunity.) It&#8217;s the arm of the immune response that produces antibodies, which circulate in our blood.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/10/galen-holmes-hot-drinks/#comment-25037</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stapley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1460#comment-25037</guid>
		<description>Tannins are a group of compounds that include a bunch of antioxidants such as flavinoids.  That is, tannins in general are not bad.  In fact, Green tea is prized for its high tannin/antioxidant content.  And for those who are in the Natural/Antioxidant/Granola fervor â€“ Tannins Rock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tannins are a group of compounds that include a bunch of antioxidants such as flavinoids.  That is, tannins in general are not bad.  In fact, Green tea is prized for its high tannin/antioxidant content.  And for those who are in the Natural/Antioxidant/Granola fervor â€“ Tannins Rock.</p>
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