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	<title>Comments on: Minority Report and the Normative Use of Slippery Slope Arguments</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: greenfrog</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21835</link>
		<dc:creator>greenfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2004 04:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21835</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Matt, for the repetition.  I finally did read the linked introduction.  Interesting thought process -- particularly the concept that the decision to accept A changes the likelihood of B being subsequently accepted.  It is always worth remembering (to me, at least) that changed conditions lead to changed desires.  Does believing that make me deterministic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Matt, for the repetition.  I finally did read the linked introduction.  Interesting thought process &#8212; particularly the concept that the decision to accept A changes the likelihood of B being subsequently accepted.  It is always worth remembering (to me, at least) that changed conditions lead to changed desires.  Does believing that make me deterministic?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21824</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2004 02:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21824</guid>
		<description>Silus: Yes you&#039;re right. I&#039;m not as sensitive as I should be sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silus: Yes you&#8217;re right. I&#8217;m not as sensitive as I should be sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Evans</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21815</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21815</guid>
		<description>From several of the comments made, it appears that almost everyone would benefit from reading the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~volokh/slippery.htm&quot;&gt;introduction to Volokh&#039;s article on the slippery slope&lt;/a&gt; that was published last year in the Harvard Law Review.  

Kaimi,

I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if magazines like Maxim are the best selling, given that they&#039;re sold in Albertsons, Target and RiteAid.  Their business strategy is to be as sexual as possible (since that&#039;s what the market wants) yet not cross the line (raise the temperature too high) so that grocery and convenience stores won&#039;t carry them.  Playboy&#039;s mistake, as they see it, was becoming a lightning rod and inviting boycots against retailers that carried them.  To my knowledge, the only major retailer to have dropped Maxim is Wal-Mart.  And even though these magazines may be the best selling, they would still be small players in the multi-billion dollar porn industry, which now consists of many more mediums than print magazines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From several of the comments made, it appears that almost everyone would benefit from reading the <a href="http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~volokh/slippery.htm">introduction to Volokh&#8217;s article on the slippery slope</a> that was published last year in the Harvard Law Review.  </p>
<p>Kaimi,</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if magazines like Maxim are the best selling, given that they&#8217;re sold in Albertsons, Target and RiteAid.  Their business strategy is to be as sexual as possible (since that&#8217;s what the market wants) yet not cross the line (raise the temperature too high) so that grocery and convenience stores won&#8217;t carry them.  Playboy&#8217;s mistake, as they see it, was becoming a lightning rod and inviting boycots against retailers that carried them.  To my knowledge, the only major retailer to have dropped Maxim is Wal-Mart.  And even though these magazines may be the best selling, they would still be small players in the multi-billion dollar porn industry, which now consists of many more mediums than print magazines.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashleigh</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21802</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashleigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21802</guid>
		<description>John, 
What I think is that is a loaded question, framed with a rather unfair characterization of Kaimi&#039;s arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,<br />
What I think is that is a loaded question, framed with a rather unfair characterization of Kaimi&#8217;s arguments.</p>
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		<title>By: D. Fletcher</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21797</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Fletcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21797</guid>
		<description>Just to take an alternative viewpoint from my normal one (for a moment only!), I do think porn is a perfect example of the slippery slope. Porn certainly runs the Internet. I&#039;m just guessing (no actual facts at my fingertips) that most people look at porn because they can. If you build it, they will come. If porn were outlawed and somehow vanquished to massage parlors and movie balconies, many people wouldn&#039;t bother to seek it out -- it doesn&#039;t really do that much for them. But because it&#039;s readily available, right in their home where no one can see... it&#039;s just hard for people to resist. Most people don&#039;t go seeking terrible car accidents in order to &quot;get a look.&quot; But which of us can really resist slowing down to get a glimpse of the victims in a car wreck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to take an alternative viewpoint from my normal one (for a moment only!), I do think porn is a perfect example of the slippery slope. Porn certainly runs the Internet. I&#8217;m just guessing (no actual facts at my fingertips) that most people look at porn because they can. If you build it, they will come. If porn were outlawed and somehow vanquished to massage parlors and movie balconies, many people wouldn&#8217;t bother to seek it out &#8212; it doesn&#8217;t really do that much for them. But because it&#8217;s readily available, right in their home where no one can see&#8230; it&#8217;s just hard for people to resist. Most people don&#8217;t go seeking terrible car accidents in order to &#8220;get a look.&#8221; But which of us can really resist slowing down to get a glimpse of the victims in a car wreck?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21794</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21794</guid>
		<description>&quot;Property rights are among the rights that the Founders envisioned in creating our Republic; rights to homosexuality, sodomy, and abortion are not.&quot;

Arguments as to founding intent have never been entirely convincing, in my book, for two major reasons: 1.  we cannot be assured as to the intent of long-dead individuals, and 2.  their viewpoints are irrelevant to a society that has long-since gone beyond their world.  It has always seemed to me that those most in favor of exhuming the Founders for their arguments do so because they long for the moral conservatism of the Founders&#039; world.  That&#039;s a disingenuous appeal to original intent, IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Property rights are among the rights that the Founders envisioned in creating our Republic; rights to homosexuality, sodomy, and abortion are not.&#8221;</p>
<p>Arguments as to founding intent have never been entirely convincing, in my book, for two major reasons: 1.  we cannot be assured as to the intent of long-dead individuals, and 2.  their viewpoints are irrelevant to a society that has long-since gone beyond their world.  It has always seemed to me that those most in favor of exhuming the Founders for their arguments do so because they long for the moral conservatism of the Founders&#8217; world.  That&#8217;s a disingenuous appeal to original intent, IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21792</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21792</guid>
		<description>John,

I&#039;m not convinced that reading statistics that a majority of men use porn (of an unspecified type), and one apparent CNN discussion about porn (again, of an unspecified type), support your original claim that &quot;hard-core porn [is] widely accepted in our society.&quot;

How &quot;accepted&quot; must something to be to be &quot;widely accepted&quot;?  I think that most porn use remains furtive, suggesting that it is _not_ widely accepted in society.  And a number of other factors also suggest a lack of &quot;wide acceptance&quot;:  Porn magazines remain behind paper-bag covers, porn-blocking is common in every workplace, viewing porn on the job will often get you fired, porn actors and actresses are not considered serious actors.  

And I think one has to ask whether any increase in porn viewing over the past ten years is due to availability rather than acceptance.  My guess is that that is exactly the case.  Internet porn, which is available to many more people than plain old magazine or movie-theater porn was, may have changed actual porn viewership in ways that &quot;social acceptance&quot; never could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not convinced that reading statistics that a majority of men use porn (of an unspecified type), and one apparent CNN discussion about porn (again, of an unspecified type), support your original claim that &#8220;hard-core porn [is] widely accepted in our society.&#8221;</p>
<p>How &#8220;accepted&#8221; must something to be to be &#8220;widely accepted&#8221;?  I think that most porn use remains furtive, suggesting that it is _not_ widely accepted in society.  And a number of other factors also suggest a lack of &#8220;wide acceptance&#8221;:  Porn magazines remain behind paper-bag covers, porn-blocking is common in every workplace, viewing porn on the job will often get you fired, porn actors and actresses are not considered serious actors.  </p>
<p>And I think one has to ask whether any increase in porn viewing over the past ten years is due to availability rather than acceptance.  My guess is that that is exactly the case.  Internet porn, which is available to many more people than plain old magazine or movie-theater porn was, may have changed actual porn viewership in ways that &#8220;social acceptance&#8221; never could.</p>
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		<title>By: john fowles</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21788</link>
		<dc:creator>john fowles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21788</guid>
		<description>Ashleigh: what about the tactic of merely crying &quot;slippery slope!&quot; rather than addressing the substantive concerns found in those arguments. Most people that make slippery slope arguments are not being disingenuous (even leftists); rather, they are analyzing matters that genuinely concern them (at least that seems to be the case here at T&amp;S--perhaps slippery slope arguments are in fact disingenuous if coming from the mouth of Teddy Kennedy or Trent Lott). When Matt genuinely and legitimately laments what is happening as a result of the legalization of SSM, which is more disingenuous: Matt&#039;s concerns for his kids or Kaimi dismissing him out-of-hand because of what Kaimi perceives to be an unfounded slippery slope argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashleigh: what about the tactic of merely crying &#8220;slippery slope!&#8221; rather than addressing the substantive concerns found in those arguments. Most people that make slippery slope arguments are not being disingenuous (even leftists); rather, they are analyzing matters that genuinely concern them (at least that seems to be the case here at T&#038;S&#8211;perhaps slippery slope arguments are in fact disingenuous if coming from the mouth of Teddy Kennedy or Trent Lott). When Matt genuinely and legitimately laments what is happening as a result of the legalization of SSM, which is more disingenuous: Matt&#8217;s concerns for his kids or Kaimi dismissing him out-of-hand because of what Kaimi perceives to be an unfounded slippery slope argument.</p>
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		<title>By: john fowles</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21787</link>
		<dc:creator>john fowles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21787</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Um, accepted by who? Certainly not me. Or most people I work with. Or most people I know. And hell, I live in Babylon. I think porn is a sad phenomenon. I donâ€™t think highly of people who use it or participate in it. Most everyone thinks the same. So who exactly is so â€œacceptingâ€? of hard-core porn?&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;ve read statistics that seem to imply that a majority of men use porn. At least Cooper Anderson of CNN seems to think so. It was so obvious to him that everyone looks at porn that for him it was just a matter of who is honest about it. 

I do believe that there are a lot of people who are disgusted by porn and its exploitative industry. But I don&#039;t agree that &quot;most everyone&quot; thinks that.

As to &lt;i&gt;Lochner&lt;/i&gt;, I think it is a bad example. Property rights are among the rights that the Founders envisioned in creating our Republic; rights to homosexuality, sodomy, and abortion are not. Thus, when &lt;i&gt;Parrish&lt;/i&gt; overturned &lt;i&gt;Lochner&lt;/i&gt; it can be seen as liberal activist judges engaging in social legislation from the bench in contravention of founding intent, rather than as a court properly executing its Article III responsibilities (see &lt;i&gt;Federalist 78&lt;/i&gt;) and curtailing a penumbra that has embraced rights outside the purview of founding intent.

Randy: I think that you make a good point. My experience has not been any different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Um, accepted by who? Certainly not me. Or most people I work with. Or most people I know. And hell, I live in Babylon. I think porn is a sad phenomenon. I donâ€™t think highly of people who use it or participate in it. Most everyone thinks the same. So who exactly is so â€œacceptingâ€? of hard-core porn?</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read statistics that seem to imply that a majority of men use porn. At least Cooper Anderson of CNN seems to think so. It was so obvious to him that everyone looks at porn that for him it was just a matter of who is honest about it. </p>
<p>I do believe that there are a lot of people who are disgusted by porn and its exploitative industry. But I don&#8217;t agree that &#8220;most everyone&#8221; thinks that.</p>
<p>As to <i>Lochner</i>, I think it is a bad example. Property rights are among the rights that the Founders envisioned in creating our Republic; rights to homosexuality, sodomy, and abortion are not. Thus, when <i>Parrish</i> overturned <i>Lochner</i> it can be seen as liberal activist judges engaging in social legislation from the bench in contravention of founding intent, rather than as a court properly executing its Article III responsibilities (see <i>Federalist 78</i>) and curtailing a penumbra that has embraced rights outside the purview of founding intent.</p>
<p>Randy: I think that you make a good point. My experience has not been any different.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashleigh</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/09/minority-report-and-the-normative-use-of-slippery-slope-arguments/#comment-21786</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashleigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1339#comment-21786</guid>
		<description>Slippery Slope arguments (from the left and the right) have always struck me as the fall-back rhetorical tool of the weak.   Intellectually lazy, often illogical and rarely compelling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slippery Slope arguments (from the left and the right) have always struck me as the fall-back rhetorical tool of the weak.   Intellectually lazy, often illogical and rarely compelling.</p>
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