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	<title>Comments on: Deseret and Federalism</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Russell Arben Fox</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-82403</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Arben Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2005 02:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-82403</guid>
		<description>Adam reminds me of this post, in connection with something I&#039;ve written over at my own blog &lt;a href=&quot;http://inmedias.blogspot.com/2005/07/my-homeland-51st-state-and-why-there.html&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;--thanks for the reminder. I have to say I&#039;m not a fan of your defense of big states, as I don&#039;t believe power (in terms of largeness) is linked to feelings of identity and belonging the way you suggest. And even if they &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; so linked, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s something to encourage; I&#039;d prefer to work on creating more opportunities for political affection and participation in smaller units (along the lines of Alperovitz&#039;s &quot;pluralist commonwealth&quot;), since I think local democracy and patriotism are best entwined.

That said, we surely want the same thing: making states &quot;mean something&quot; again. So, in general, I agree: shrink them, enlarge them, change their borders--whatever will make the available representation more legitimate in the eyes of those supposedly empowered by it. I think you&#039;re almost certainly right, Adam, in thinking that if we want to see American Mormons take more seriously and wield more unapologetically their own particular cultural contribution to the union, then building a state which incorporated all (or at least most) of the extant Mormon homeland would be a good place to start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam reminds me of this post, in connection with something I&#8217;ve written over at my own blog <a href="http://inmedias.blogspot.com/2005/07/my-homeland-51st-state-and-why-there.html">here</a>&#8211;thanks for the reminder. I have to say I&#8217;m not a fan of your defense of big states, as I don&#8217;t believe power (in terms of largeness) is linked to feelings of identity and belonging the way you suggest. And even if they <i>are</i> so linked, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s something to encourage; I&#8217;d prefer to work on creating more opportunities for political affection and participation in smaller units (along the lines of Alperovitz&#8217;s &#8220;pluralist commonwealth&#8221;), since I think local democracy and patriotism are best entwined.</p>
<p>That said, we surely want the same thing: making states &#8220;mean something&#8221; again. So, in general, I agree: shrink them, enlarge them, change their borders&#8211;whatever will make the available representation more legitimate in the eyes of those supposedly empowered by it. I think you&#8217;re almost certainly right, Adam, in thinking that if we want to see American Mormons take more seriously and wield more unapologetically their own particular cultural contribution to the union, then building a state which incorporated all (or at least most) of the extant Mormon homeland would be a good place to start.</p>
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		<title>By: danithew</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10301</link>
		<dc:creator>danithew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10301</guid>
		<description>Holeee ...

&lt;i&gt;That&lt;/i&gt; would certainly stir up the political pot.  I did a little google search on this and it doesn&#039;t appear this is a big news item.  But it certainly is an interesting idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holeee &#8230;</p>
<p><i>That</i> would certainly stir up the political pot.  I did a little google search on this and it doesn&#8217;t appear this is a big news item.  But it certainly is an interesting idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Tolman</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10302</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Tolman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10302</guid>
		<description>It does my Texas Heart proud to hear this.

It also seems that in some places, like the South, New England, or Pacific North West people have transferred their state identifies to regional identities, and often states from those areas seem to pool their resources on certain issues because of shared interest and ideology, at least in some cases (this is certainly true for the Pac NW and the South). While this is not a perfect counterbalance to the problem you bring up, it has served to temper the whims of the federal government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does my Texas Heart proud to hear this.</p>
<p>It also seems that in some places, like the South, New England, or Pacific North West people have transferred their state identifies to regional identities, and often states from those areas seem to pool their resources on certain issues because of shared interest and ideology, at least in some cases (this is certainly true for the Pac NW and the South). While this is not a perfect counterbalance to the problem you bring up, it has served to temper the whims of the federal government.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10303</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10303</guid>
		<description>Very true, Mr. Tolman.  It was some such phenomenon that led to wonder if these regional identities would be even stronger if they were also political identities.  I concluded they would.  Probably the best thing is for states to actively pursue regional ties and compacts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true, Mr. Tolman.  It was some such phenomenon that led to wonder if these regional identities would be even stronger if they were also political identities.  I concluded they would.  Probably the best thing is for states to actively pursue regional ties and compacts.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10304</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10304</guid>
		<description>Nebraska has quite a bit of its own state pride. Twisted as it is around a big red N. Don&#039;t get me wrong. I&#039;m proud to call this place home, but I don&#039;t mind running away during college bowl season. There aren&#039;t enough white coats and butterfly nets to accomodate everyone here round that time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nebraska has quite a bit of its own state pride. Twisted as it is around a big red N. Don&#8217;t get me wrong. I&#8217;m proud to call this place home, but I don&#8217;t mind running away during college bowl season. There aren&#8217;t enough white coats and butterfly nets to accomodate everyone here round that time.</p>
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		<title>By: lyle</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10305</link>
		<dc:creator>lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10305</guid>
		<description>Adam: 

Shed a tear while you&#039;re at it for the outright theft of the land settled by the Saints &amp; theft of their Church&#039;s lands &amp; even corporate identity.  

Before we get to reparations for slavery...a tax rebate as suggested by Alan Keyes...perhaps a tax rebate for LDS folks?  Now there is a great conversion tool...not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam: </p>
<p>Shed a tear while you&#8217;re at it for the outright theft of the land settled by the Saints &#038; theft of their Church&#8217;s lands &#038; even corporate identity.  </p>
<p>Before we get to reparations for slavery&#8230;a tax rebate as suggested by Alan Keyes&#8230;perhaps a tax rebate for LDS folks?  Now there is a great conversion tool&#8230;not.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryce I</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10306</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10306</guid>
		<description>Charles --

Please don&#039;t confuse college bowl season (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.e-falk.com/qb/&quot;&gt;all year round these days&lt;/a&gt;) with &lt;a href=&quot;http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls03/bowl?game=humanitarian&quot;&gt;college football bowl season&lt;/a&gt; :)  There are plenty of relatively unathletic but sane and thoughtful former college bowl players hanging around here (including Adam G.)

Of course, the Nebraska football team could probably do pretty well on the college bowl circuit.  After all, the &quot;N&quot; on the helmet does stand for &quot;Knowledge&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles &#8211;</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t confuse college bowl season (<a href="http://www.e-falk.com/qb/">all year round these days</a>) with <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls03/bowl?game=humanitarian">college football bowl season</a> :)  There are plenty of relatively unathletic but sane and thoughtful former college bowl players hanging around here (including Adam G.)</p>
<p>Of course, the Nebraska football team could probably do pretty well on the college bowl circuit.  After all, the &#8220;N&#8221; on the helmet does stand for &#8220;Knowledge&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ethesis (Stephen M)</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10307</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethesis (Stephen M)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10307</guid>
		<description>Well, we used to talk about Statehood for Wichita Falls, Texas every time the District of Columbia wanted senators of its own...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we used to talk about Statehood for Wichita Falls, Texas every time the District of Columbia wanted senators of its own&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: john fowles</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10308</link>
		<dc:creator>john fowles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10308</guid>
		<description>Having grown up in Dallas and educated in the public  schools, I can add that one of the main reasons for Texas pride and sense of identity is the fact that Texas fought its own war of independence against its sovereign--Mexico--and then was an independent country before joining the United States. 

California has such state identity because of its prosperity (the sixth largest economy in the world?) and its own geographical peculiarity.

I also think that Alaska has the type of state pride that Adam longs for. Maybe this is a characteristic of the big states that are well situated economically. There is somewhat of a banana republic mentality tied up in this as well, though, and that could actually be a negative aspect of such pride.

But as to the main issue in this post--the state of Deseret--I agree with Adam completely and think that if states regained their proper role in the federal system that the Framers intended to establish, a state of Deseret would still be a possibility. The Constitution mandates that each of these individual sovereign states at least guarantee a republican form of government. That requirement would in no way inhibit a state of Deseret from providing a place where LDS values play a large role in the political order of society (even while maintaining a separation of church and state, despite the fact that such non-establishment on the state level was arguably not actually the sense of the First Amendment&#039;s Establishment Clause).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having grown up in Dallas and educated in the public  schools, I can add that one of the main reasons for Texas pride and sense of identity is the fact that Texas fought its own war of independence against its sovereign&#8211;Mexico&#8211;and then was an independent country before joining the United States. </p>
<p>California has such state identity because of its prosperity (the sixth largest economy in the world?) and its own geographical peculiarity.</p>
<p>I also think that Alaska has the type of state pride that Adam longs for. Maybe this is a characteristic of the big states that are well situated economically. There is somewhat of a banana republic mentality tied up in this as well, though, and that could actually be a negative aspect of such pride.</p>
<p>But as to the main issue in this post&#8211;the state of Deseret&#8211;I agree with Adam completely and think that if states regained their proper role in the federal system that the Framers intended to establish, a state of Deseret would still be a possibility. The Constitution mandates that each of these individual sovereign states at least guarantee a republican form of government. That requirement would in no way inhibit a state of Deseret from providing a place where LDS values play a large role in the political order of society (even while maintaining a separation of church and state, despite the fact that such non-establishment on the state level was arguably not actually the sense of the First Amendment&#8217;s Establishment Clause).</p>
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		<title>By: Eric James Stone</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/08/deseret-and-federalism/#comment-10309</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric James Stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1236#comment-10309</guid>
		<description>You know, it&#039;s kind of ridiculous that this proposal is news.  I went to law school in Texas over ten years ago, and we used to talk about the right of Texas to split itself into up to five states all the time.  Generally the idea was to make a small state around Austin for the liberals, and then have North Texas, South Texas, East Texas and West Texas.  But I suppose by splitting Austin among five states, we could have ensured Republican senators from all five.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, it&#8217;s kind of ridiculous that this proposal is news.  I went to law school in Texas over ten years ago, and we used to talk about the right of Texas to split itself into up to five states all the time.  Generally the idea was to make a small state around Austin for the liberals, and then have North Texas, South Texas, East Texas and West Texas.  But I suppose by splitting Austin among five states, we could have ensured Republican senators from all five.</p>
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