Comments on: WANTED . . . no LDS need apply

By: Albane

Albane — Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:50:23 +0000

I am a convert of 17 years and understand these difficulties.
I do not understand actually why there is not much more solidarity and determination in helping us members be independant and more autonomous and why our leaders in general do not talk and consider more these things practically speaking.
In general, we are to use our free agency based on what we know is right but not impose our choices on others even if they are good. This thus refers to PF etc. I struggle in my own sphere in doing what is right and I would rather be a secretary etc and not have to lie but this is not a guarantee either.
My general feeling is more the fact that there is not much help from within.
The Church condemns ‘gambling’ for instance but there are nuances for me here too. Christ had put real coins in fishes when the disciples could not pay their taxes. They were real coins. He may not have been accused of manufacturing fake money but would have been condembed for He was not in authority for ‘producing’ that real money. When jobs are refused to you includin cleaning houses, secretarial jobs etc and you are at the border of becoming homeless etc I do not consider money won through a lottery ticket dishonest when it can bring about good in this world. Money from work is taxed but not the one from these lottery games! It gets more and more difficult to deal honestly and earn a decent living through work. We have not mentionned derivatives and all the financial schemes which are legal but so much worse than lottery and casinos for they destroy nations and the whole international monetary system.
I wish indeed that the Church in general would consider more these different aspects but not just through the US perspective.
There is too much machism too.
Has anybody been acquainted with the Science of Christian Economy by Larouche (So you wish to learn all about economics?)
We have a various of dating sites but I consider jobs to be of outmost importance for our respective freedom and development Can we indeed to much good in misery.

By: Julie in Austin

Julie in Austin — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

fix

By: Kaimi

Kaimi — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Prostitute. Probably stripper. Probably the same for pimps.

Likely that Rabbi, Nun, etc are also out.

Hmm, wine taster? Brewer? Tobacconist?

(On the other hand, maybe not — entire wards on my mission were comprised of coffee farmers).

Gay-wedding planner?

Hmm, I know an active LDS soap-opera star (well, former), so that’s not out of the question. Similarly, risque dancers can conceivably be LDS — there was an article a few months back about a dancer in DC, as I recall, who was able to wear a body suit for some required (quasi, in her case) stage nudity.

By: Clark Goble

Clark Goble — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I knew of a former CIA assassin from my mission. Of course he had a pretty hard time living with some of the stuff he did. So perhaps it wouldn’t be ideal for a Mormon…

By: Derek Hofmann

Derek Hofmann — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

* Evolutionary scientist.
* Professional medium.
* Pickpocket.
* Communist dictator.
* MPAA movie rater (conflict of interest: the rater would be tempted to rate every movie PG-13 and below in order to avoid having sinned, after the fact. Or maybe not, because at the time the movie was “not yet rated”).

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Kaimi, You refer to Nina Warren, an opera star and Mormon mom who specializes in Strauss’s spooky opera Salome. She not only performs the slinky “Dance of the Seven Veils” (in body stocking), but, at the opera’s climax, kisses John the Baptist’s decapitated head on the mouth.

Derek, Evolutionary Scientist?! If you’re right, there are lots of folks in the BYU biology department that shouldn’t be.

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Lots of members in Vegas work in the Casinos (the justification, one once told me, is that everybody in Vegas, whatever they’re doing, is working for the Casinos).

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Many of the Mormon students at the music conservatory I attend have worked part-time playing organ and/or directing choirs in local protestant churches. And at one point, the organist and chorister in my ward, the former an early music specialist, the latter a Wagnerian tenor, both worked in a progressive local synagogue. Before any given service, you might have encountered a Mormon guy playing Lutheran church music while the Jewish congregants filtered in. Once the service started, another Mormon acted as Cantor (they even let him blow the shofar!).

By: Russell Arben Fox

Russell Arben Fox — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Arguably aside from Word of Wisdom-related occupations (a couple of which were mentioned above), I really can’t think of any occupation that would be inconsistent with LDS doctrine that isn’t, broadly speaking, inconsistent with Christian principles in general. Some traditions of Christian practice, obviously, take the ideal of living a humble, unworldly, Christlike life much more seriously than Mormonism (or Catholicism, etc.) does, and for those in such traditions, the list of forbidden occupations is long: Mennonites, for example, can’t be soldiers, police officers, tax collectors, politicians, etc. I suppose one could argue that Mormons at least are expected to draw a somewhat firmer line against occupations which involve gambling or working on Sunday than other denominations, but I doubt that expectation translates into practice as often as perhaps it should.

What occupations ought Christians avoid, in general? Well, anything that oppresses the poor, or involves violence, or puts one person above another, or abuses our earthly stewardship, or gets in the way of worship, or causes contention (directly or indirectly), or presents a stumbling-block to the faith of others. I think that pretty much excludes practically all carrers in law, business, banking, politics, law enforcement, mass food processing, the military, construction, etc. All that’s left, really, is what Hugh Nibley called “The Great Triple Combination–farming, church, and study.” I’ve no doubt that he’s right–in the millenium, we will all, more or less, spend our days tending to our gardens (literal or metaphorical), performing our callings, and enriching our minds. However, such a limited range of occupations is incompatible with the maintenance of a modern, democratic society. Perhaps we shouldn’t value that good as much as we do…but seeing as we do value it, careers which violate basic Christian principles seem inevitable. As they say, the world lieth in sin.

By: Frank McIntyre

Frank McIntyre — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Russell,

You seem to be talking about what the United Order would have us do. But we are not in the United Order.

Furthermore, some of the items on your list are odd. Mormon’s occupation involved violence, and yet I see no reason to second guess his occupational choice (and he was not alone in that choice). Nor is policing, which involves violence, a no-no in any sense I know. Mormon’s life might also have bearing on the lawyer thread, as he showed some clear waffling about his work when he felt he was defending the guilty and abetting their iniquity.

And putting one person above another seems to me to be a characteristic of the individual and not the occupation. Some occupations are revered, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do them. It just means we shouldn’t get snooty if we do them.

“Causes contention, directly or indirectly” — surely by this you mean lawyers :)

In principle, I think I agree with some form of the other no-no’s you cite. Althugh I would be interested to see a workable definition of oppressing the poor, and I’m not quite sure what occupations are a stumbling block to others that don’t also violate some other rule.

By: Ben S.

Ben S. — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I know two active and believing LDS in the Divinity school who are assistant pastors at local churches. They frequently miss church because they’re preaching:)

By: Scott

Scott — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

If a good Mormon can’t be a porn star, can a good Mormon:

a) be a director of pornographic films (PFs)?

b) compose music for PFs?

c) take royalties for a composition that has been subsequently used in a PF?

d) be an in-house bookkeeper for a PF studio?

e) be outside counsel representing a PF studio?

f) be a landowner that leases space to an “adult bookstore”?

g) be a landowner that leases space to a video store that has a small adults-only back room for PFs?

h) be a distributor of PFs?

i) be an officer of a company with a wholly-owned subsidiary that produces PFs?

j) be a shareholder of a company whose wholly-owned subsidiary produces PFs?

k) be a member of a political party or action group that seeks, by law or litigation, to protect or extend the PF-related rights?

Scott