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	<title>Comments on: An Apology</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Kristine</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3558</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3558</guid>
		<description>fix</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fix</p>
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		<title>By: Frank McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3559</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank McIntyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3559</guid>
		<description>Not so much an apology as an apologia (defense).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so much an apology as an apologia (defense).</p>
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		<title>By: Nate Oman</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3560</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Oman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3560</guid>
		<description>I freely admit that I am really dense about reading poetry, so I no doubt am missing the inner meaning of this particular offering, but I do have a question/objection.

It seems to me that the poem is implicitly saying, hey, quit bugging me about the dishes, I am writing something for the ages here.  Now perhaps in the context of the cult of domesticity and the restricted options of women, etc. etc., we ought to cheer the sentiments and march to the barricades.  On the other hand...

Imagine that the speaker was male, rather than female, and he informed his wife, sister, mother, etc. that he wasn&#039;t doing the dishes because he was engaged in higher things.

If I did that, my wife would kick my butt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I freely admit that I am really dense about reading poetry, so I no doubt am missing the inner meaning of this particular offering, but I do have a question/objection.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the poem is implicitly saying, hey, quit bugging me about the dishes, I am writing something for the ages here.  Now perhaps in the context of the cult of domesticity and the restricted options of women, etc. etc., we ought to cheer the sentiments and march to the barricades.  On the other hand&#8230;</p>
<p>Imagine that the speaker was male, rather than female, and he informed his wife, sister, mother, etc. that he wasn&#8217;t doing the dishes because he was engaged in higher things.</p>
<p>If I did that, my wife would kick my butt.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kingsley</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3561</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3561</guid>
		<description>Ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Huff</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3562</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Huff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3562</guid>
		<description>I like how she is willing to admit she&#039;s a bit of a freak : ) at the same time that she (not entirely consistently? but I think consistency is hard to achieve on this question) claims to have been doing something higher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how she is willing to admit she&#8217;s a bit of a freak : ) at the same time that she (not entirely consistently? but I think consistency is hard to achieve on this question) claims to have been doing something higher.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kingsley</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3563</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3563</guid>
		<description>I wonder, though, if it’s a good idea to embrace bad art for the sake of the Cause. Like the LDS tendency to hang anything on the wall having to do with the Church, no matter how badly expressed. The Church is good, so a painting of Joseph Smith on a heavenly swing set getting a push from Jesus while a misty-eyed Moroni (perhaps accompanied by one or two of the Founding Fathers) looks on approvingly is good. I suppose this line of reasoning isn’t limited to the Saints (on my mission I saw, in a Christian bookstore, a picture of Jesus riding a unicorn), but anyhow I can’t shake the feeling that (aesthetically) cheap art cheapens whatever it’s portraying. Anyhow this sort of Hallmark poetry can be reproduced &lt;i&gt;ad nauseam&lt;/i&gt;: here’s my own contribution to the Cause: 

&amp; I thought, O dear dear mother
My mother so gentle &amp; sweet
If only you’d written some poems of your own
That would’ve been really neat
But the menfolk kept you busy
With cries for more red meat
 
So now it’s just me &amp; Shakespeare
All alone in a room of one’s own
Damning those damnable dishes
&amp; gnawing the poetry bone
Etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder, though, if it’s a good idea to embrace bad art for the sake of the Cause. Like the LDS tendency to hang anything on the wall having to do with the Church, no matter how badly expressed. The Church is good, so a painting of Joseph Smith on a heavenly swing set getting a push from Jesus while a misty-eyed Moroni (perhaps accompanied by one or two of the Founding Fathers) looks on approvingly is good. I suppose this line of reasoning isn’t limited to the Saints (on my mission I saw, in a Christian bookstore, a picture of Jesus riding a unicorn), but anyhow I can’t shake the feeling that (aesthetically) cheap art cheapens whatever it’s portraying. Anyhow this sort of Hallmark poetry can be reproduced <i>ad nauseam</i>: here’s my own contribution to the Cause: </p>
<p>&#038; I thought, O dear dear mother<br />
My mother so gentle &#038; sweet<br />
If only you’d written some poems of your own<br />
That would’ve been really neat<br />
But the menfolk kept you busy<br />
With cries for more red meat</p>
<p>So now it’s just me &#038; Shakespeare<br />
All alone in a room of one’s own<br />
Damning those damnable dishes<br />
&#038; gnawing the poetry bone<br />
Etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3564</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank McIntyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3564</guid>
		<description>Ben,

&lt;i&gt;She&lt;/i&gt; is not the freak, it is her mind and feelings that play her so.  And, judging from the conclusion, she perhaps considers it only to be freakish in the eyes of her sisters and mothers.  

My thoughts echo Nate&#039;s.  This poem could be, with subtle alteration, applied to the men of the era just as well.  This makes the poem more interesting because it is more universally applicable.  But when applied to men, its hubris shines through more clearly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p><i>She</i> is not the freak, it is her mind and feelings that play her so.  And, judging from the conclusion, she perhaps considers it only to be freakish in the eyes of her sisters and mothers.  </p>
<p>My thoughts echo Nate&#8217;s.  This poem could be, with subtle alteration, applied to the men of the era just as well.  This makes the poem more interesting because it is more universally applicable.  But when applied to men, its hubris shines through more clearly.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie in Austin</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3565</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie in Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3565</guid>
		<description>&quot;so a painting of Joseph Smith on a heavenly swing set getting a push from Jesus while a misty-eyed Moroni (perhaps accompanied by one or two of the Founding Fathers) looks on approvingly&quot;

I would pay good money for this.  It would be fun to see people&#039;s reactions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;so a painting of Joseph Smith on a heavenly swing set getting a push from Jesus while a misty-eyed Moroni (perhaps accompanied by one or two of the Founding Fathers) looks on approvingly&#8221;</p>
<p>I would pay good money for this.  It would be fun to see people&#8217;s reactions.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3566</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3566</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say this was art. I merely called it a poem. 

Nevertheless, I still like Lula&#039;s &quot;Apology&quot; because I find some ambiguity in her tone. Frank suggested that a more appropriate title for this poem would be &quot;Apologia,&quot; or defense. Indeed, Lula may simply be defending her decision to write instead of washing the dishes. However, there may also be a level of real regret for leaving her other responsibilities undone. After all she calls herself a freak and faults the other children (presumably her sisters) for nothing but their love of the flowers and sunshine outside--hardly a harsh indictment. I think it is also possible that Lula is making fun of herself.

Nate---you&#039;re right that putting this poem in the voice of a man drastically changes the tone. I think, however, that doing so is somewhat unfair. Lula is commenting on the expectations and strictures placed on her as a (19th century) woman. Notice that she makes no apology to her father or brothers for not doing the dishes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say this was art. I merely called it a poem. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I still like Lula&#8217;s &#8220;Apology&#8221; because I find some ambiguity in her tone. Frank suggested that a more appropriate title for this poem would be &#8220;Apologia,&#8221; or defense. Indeed, Lula may simply be defending her decision to write instead of washing the dishes. However, there may also be a level of real regret for leaving her other responsibilities undone. After all she calls herself a freak and faults the other children (presumably her sisters) for nothing but their love of the flowers and sunshine outside&#8211;hardly a harsh indictment. I think it is also possible that Lula is making fun of herself.</p>
<p>Nate&#8212;you&#8217;re right that putting this poem in the voice of a man drastically changes the tone. I think, however, that doing so is somewhat unfair. Lula is commenting on the expectations and strictures placed on her as a (19th century) woman. Notice that she makes no apology to her father or brothers for not doing the dishes.</p>
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		<title>By: Kingsley</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/06/an-apology/#comment-3567</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=914#comment-3567</guid>
		<description>Julie: Being sorely in need of good money, I wish I could paint. However, if you&#039;re interested, I recently saw an LDS painting which features the Founding Fathers clustered around the freshly-signed Constitution, looking deeply into each other&#039;s eyes, gripping each other&#039;s shoulders in a brotherly way, &amp; meanwhile B. Franklin is breaking the fourth wall by staring right at you with a big fat tear oozing down his cheek. The artist was so intent on that tear being visible (look! he&#039;s &lt;i&gt;crying&lt;/i&gt;! Just &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; of how meaningful it was) that he gave it a milky quality that has, unfortunately, the appearance of snot. I think Deseret Book sells it for the low low price of 200 bucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julie: Being sorely in need of good money, I wish I could paint. However, if you&#8217;re interested, I recently saw an LDS painting which features the Founding Fathers clustered around the freshly-signed Constitution, looking deeply into each other&#8217;s eyes, gripping each other&#8217;s shoulders in a brotherly way, &#038; meanwhile B. Franklin is breaking the fourth wall by staring right at you with a big fat tear oozing down his cheek. The artist was so intent on that tear being visible (look! he&#8217;s <i>crying</i>! Just <i>think</i> of how meaningful it was) that he gave it a milky quality that has, unfortunately, the appearance of snot. I think Deseret Book sells it for the low low price of 200 bucks.</p>
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