Comments on: Quorums http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/ Truth Will Prevail Tue, 22 May 2012 19:34:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: charles http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2178 charles Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2178 http://scriptures.lds.org/bda/apostle It seems from the Bible dictionary that it is possible to be an apostle without being in the Quorum of the 12. The Quorum being the counciling body. Perhaps there was no distionction to this in the OT for linguistic reasons. I'm not suggesting that the word 'quorum' itself did not exist or did not have an equivalent, but perhaps there was not a need for the distinction as the early church (in OT times) was not organized the way ours is today. Just a thought. http://scriptures.lds.org/bda/apostle

It seems from the Bible dictionary that it is possible to be an apostle without being in the Quorum of the 12. The Quorum being the counciling body. Perhaps there was no distionction to this in the OT for linguistic reasons. I’m not suggesting that the word ‘quorum’ itself did not exist or did not have an equivalent, but perhaps there was not a need for the distinction as the early church (in OT times) was not organized the way ours is today.

Just a thought.

]]> By: Kaimi http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2179 Kaimi Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2179 Agreed, it seems possible. I'm a little puzzled by a few statements in reference material suggesting that the first group was indeed a quorum. http://scriptures.lds.org/bda/actsfthp and http://scriptures.lds.org/gsm/matthias I wonder if this is an inadvertent anachronism, or an accurate description of an aspect that was left out of scripture. Agreed, it seems possible.

I’m a little puzzled by a few statements in reference material suggesting that the first group was indeed a quorum.

http://scriptures.lds.org/bda/actsfthp

and

http://scriptures.lds.org/gsm/matthias

I wonder if this is an inadvertent anachronism, or an accurate description of an aspect that was left out of scripture.

]]> By: the wandering Fool http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2180 the wandering Fool Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2180 Maybe the problem is with the word apostle, that word has several meanings to include " a person sednt on a mission"(Webster's Dictionary) Maybe the problem is with the word apostle, that word has several meanings to include ” a person sednt on a mission”(Webster’s Dictionary)

]]> By: Pat Eyler http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2181 Pat Eyler Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2181 There have also been instances during this dispensation when a man was made an apostle without becoming a member of the quorum of the twelve. Off the top of my head, Brigham Young Jr. was ordained an apostle 3-4 years before being set apart as a member of the twelve. I believe that this caused some confusion in the succession in the first presidency when Lorenzo Snow passed away (Joseph F. Smith was the senior member of the quorum although he had been an apostle for a shorter time than BY Jr) There have also been instances during this dispensation when a man was made an apostle without becoming a member of the quorum of the twelve. Off the top of my head, Brigham Young Jr. was ordained an apostle 3-4 years before being set apart as a member of the twelve. I believe that this caused some confusion in the succession in the first presidency when Lorenzo Snow passed away (Joseph F. Smith was the senior member of the quorum although he had been an apostle for a shorter time than BY Jr)

]]> By: Nate Oman http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2182 Nate Oman Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2182 Interestingly, one needn't be an Apostle in order to serve in the First Presidency. For example, J. Reuben Clark served in the first presidency for several years as a High Priest (which is the required office for being in the FP) before he was ordained an apostle. Right now we have fifteen ordained Apostles. President Monson retains his title as President of the Quorum of the Twelve, even thought he is in the Quorum of the First Presidency, because Elder Packard is sustained as Acting-President of the Quorum of the Twelve. What this means is that the current quorum of the Twelve has at least thirteen members and probably fourteen members. Alternatively, we could conceptualize it as having just twelve members, with Faust and Monson being non-quorum Apostles who are nevertheless eligible for membership in a fourteen member Quorum of the Twelve to be convened upon President Hinkley's death. During President McKay's administration the First Presidency ballooned. (I think it got up to something like seven counselors) Does anyone know if all of these men were ordained as apostles or were they simply high priests? Interestingly, one needn’t be an Apostle in order to serve in the First Presidency. For example, J. Reuben Clark served in the first presidency for several years as a High Priest (which is the required office for being in the FP) before he was ordained an apostle. Right now we have fifteen ordained Apostles. President Monson retains his title as President of the Quorum of the Twelve, even thought he is in the Quorum of the First Presidency, because Elder Packard is sustained as Acting-President of the Quorum of the Twelve. What this means is that the current quorum of the Twelve has at least thirteen members and probably fourteen members. Alternatively, we could conceptualize it as having just twelve members, with Faust and Monson being non-quorum Apostles who are nevertheless eligible for membership in a fourteen member Quorum of the Twelve to be convened upon President Hinkley’s death.

During President McKay’s administration the First Presidency ballooned. (I think it got up to something like seven counselors) Does anyone know if all of these men were ordained as apostles or were they simply high priests?

]]> By: Pat Eyler http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2183 Pat Eyler Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2183 At least one of Pres McKay's counselors do not appear to have been an apostle -- (Henry) Thorpe B. (Beal) Isaacsonn served as an assistant to the twelve and as a counselor, but I don't see that he was ordained an apostle. Another counselor also presents an interesting case -- Alvin Rulon Dyer was ordained an apostle while an assistant to the twelve, then served as a counselor. Later, he returned to his position as an assistant to the twelve. Finally, he served in the first quorum of the seventy (as an apostle). At least one of Pres McKay’s counselors do not appear to have been an apostle — (Henry) Thorpe B. (Beal) Isaacsonn served as an assistant to the twelve and as a counselor, but I don’t see that he was ordained an apostle.

Another counselor also presents an interesting case — Alvin Rulon Dyer was ordained an apostle while an assistant to the twelve, then served as a counselor. Later, he returned to his position as an assistant to the twelve. Finally, he served in the first quorum of the seventy (as an apostle).

]]> By: Nate Oman http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2184 Nate Oman Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2184 Pat: Thanks for posting this. The details about Dyer are very interesting. I had never heard this story before... Pat: Thanks for posting this. The details about Dyer are very interesting. I had never heard this story before…

]]> By: Pat Eyler http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/05/quorums/#comment-2185 Pat Eyler Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=819#comment-2185 I'm glad the topic was brought up. It's proved an interesting area to look into. Some of the more interesting counselors look like the served Joseph Smith. One of his counselors (William Law) is purported to have been among the mob that martyred Joseph. http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/w/o/wol3/1stpres.htm (and related pages) has proved a nice resource. I’m glad the topic was brought up. It’s proved an interesting area to look into. Some of the more interesting counselors look like the served Joseph Smith. One of his counselors (William Law) is purported to have been among the mob that martyred Joseph.

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/w/o/wol3/1stpres.htm
(and related pages) has proved a nice resource.

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