Comments on: What is the Purpose of the BYU Dress and Grooming Code? http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:57:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: too short shorts John http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-20944 too short shorts John Tue, 07 Sep 2004 02:46:28 +0000 /?p=194#comment-20944 Though this thread has been dead for many months now I feel I have to leave a story. I attended a two-week computer programming course at the Y during the summer before my senior year of high school. I went to have lunch at the Cannon Center. There was a long line because the football team had just arrived from practice. Peter Tuipulotu was a few spots ahead of me in line. He was wearing a t-shirt, a towel, and flip flops. It appeard that he had just gotten out of the shower and thrown a t-shirt on his wet torso. He entered the dining area without a word being spoken to him. I arrived at the head of the line a few moments later. The woman checking dinning cards asked if I would lift my shirt up. I refused on principle. She said that she suspected that I was "low-riding" my shorts to get into the dining area. I assured her that I wasn't and that I had simply purchased large shorts to be able to be dressed appropriately for BYU during the summer. She again asked me to lift up my shirt. At this point I yelled, "I can believe you just let Peter Tuipulotu in here nearly naked and then choose to pick on me. I'll lift up my shirt if he lifts up his towel!" Peter was kind enough to turn my way and smile and wave before turing his attention to the meal line again. The woman was aghast and kicked me out. Though this thread has been dead for many months now I feel I have to leave a story. I attended a two-week computer programming course at the Y during the summer before my senior year of high school. I went to have lunch at the Cannon Center. There was a long line because the football team had just arrived from practice. Peter Tuipulotu was a few spots ahead of me in line. He was wearing a t-shirt, a towel, and flip flops. It appeard that he had just gotten out of the shower and thrown a t-shirt on his wet torso. He entered the dining area without a word being spoken to him. I arrived at the head of the line a few moments later. The woman checking dinning cards asked if I would lift my shirt up. I refused on principle. She said that she suspected that I was “low-riding” my shorts to get into the dining area. I assured her that I wasn’t and that I had simply purchased large shorts to be able to be dressed appropriately for BYU during the summer. She again asked me to lift up my shirt. At this point I yelled, “I can believe you just let Peter Tuipulotu in here nearly naked and then choose to pick on me. I’ll lift up my shirt if he lifts up his towel!” Peter was kind enough to turn my way and smile and wave before turing his attention to the meal line again. The woman was aghast and kicked me out.

]]> By: Kaimi http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11793 Kaimi Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11793 Nate, I hereby dub you: Nathan "I was a teenage heck-raiser" Oman. Nate, I hereby dub you:

Nathan “I was a teenage heck-raiser” Oman.

]]> By: Russell Arben Fox http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11794 Russell Arben Fox Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11794 "[W]hile I was at BYU I would regularly engage in such wild misbehaviors as going to my freshman dorm cafeteria in running shorts that were TOO SHORT! I would sometimes skip shaving, particularly during finals, brazenly walking past the honor code police in the library with two days worth of post-adolescent scruff. Needless to say, I felt that I was quite the daring individualist....We were young. We were crazy. We were rebels with a cause: scruffiness and true moral awareness!" Face it Nathan: you're square. “[W]hile I was at BYU I would regularly engage in such wild misbehaviors as going to my freshman dorm cafeteria in running shorts that were TOO SHORT! I would sometimes skip shaving, particularly during finals, brazenly walking past the honor code police in the library with two days worth of post-adolescent scruff. Needless to say, I felt that I was quite the daring individualist….We were young. We were crazy. We were rebels with a cause: scruffiness and true moral awareness!”

Face it Nathan: you’re square.

]]> By: clark http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11795 clark Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11795 Actually when I was at BYU there was this ongoing debate about whether the short and sock rule related to pubic hairs. Which seemed like an odd idea since there still was a rather large area exposed. (Leg hair, that is) That was when Rex Lee consulted with the students and modified the honor code to something a little more sensible. Actually when I was at BYU there was this ongoing debate about whether the short and sock rule related to pubic hairs. Which seemed like an odd idea since there still was a rather large area exposed. (Leg hair, that is) That was when Rex Lee consulted with the students and modified the honor code to something a little more sensible.

]]> By: Nate http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11796 Nate Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11796 I don't know what Russell is trying to say! I was denied entry to the cafeteria on a number of occasions as a result of my blatently lascivious behavior. (They were frightened, no doubt, of the purient effect of my exposed knee caps on the women of Heleman Halls. And who can blame them?!) I even once had to sweet talk my way past on honor code guard to take a final I was otherwise in danger of missing. Actually, a problem I ran into fairly consistently is that I am completely freckle faced and my beard comes in red. The result is that it would often take me DAYS of scruffiness before anyone would notice my wild antics. Very frustrating! I don’t know what Russell is trying to say! I was denied entry to the cafeteria on a number of occasions as a result of my blatently lascivious behavior. (They were frightened, no doubt, of the purient effect of my exposed knee caps on the women of Heleman Halls. And who can blame them?!) I even once had to sweet talk my way past on honor code guard to take a final I was otherwise in danger of missing.

Actually, a problem I ran into fairly consistently is that I am completely freckle faced and my beard comes in red. The result is that it would often take me DAYS of scruffiness before anyone would notice my wild antics. Very frustrating!

]]> By: Jim http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11797 Jim Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11797 With some hyperbole, I've often laid claim to being responsible for the BYU Dress and Grooming Code. As a freshman at BYU in 1965, I passed President Wilkinson every day on my way to German class in the McKay Building at 8:00 a.m. I had sort of a beard--as much as I could muster at 17--and longish hair, and I often wore sandals, jeans, etc. I spent three semesters at BYU in that condition and then decided to go on a mission. When I got back from my mission, I started letting my beard and hair grow, but when I went to register for classes in the Smith Fieldhouse, I was turned away to get a haircut and to shave. The Cannon Center rules had become the University rules. Whether or not the purpose of the Dress Code is to give students something to rebel against, it works that way and it works well. With some hyperbole, I’ve often laid claim to being responsible for the BYU Dress and Grooming Code. As a freshman at BYU in 1965, I passed President Wilkinson every day on my way to German class in the McKay Building at 8:00 a.m. I had sort of a beard–as much as I could muster at 17–and longish hair, and I often wore sandals, jeans, etc. I spent three semesters at BYU in that condition and then decided to go on a mission. When I got back from my mission, I started letting my beard and hair grow, but when I went to register for classes in the Smith Fieldhouse, I was turned away to get a haircut and to shave. The Cannon Center rules had become the University rules.

Whether or not the purpose of the Dress Code is to give students something to rebel against, it works that way and it works well.

]]> By: Kaimi http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11798 Kaimi Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11798 I have wondered about the harmful results of this kind of policy. While it's true that a lot of LDS kids can use this to get through their rebellious stage without doing major damage, the policy can have a harmful effect on substantial minorities in a couple of different ways. Most possible harm comes from the fact that this causes LDS kids to lump harmless behaviors (not shaving) with harmful behaviors (drinking, premarital sex). This could (1) lead to an "I blew it, I might as well go all the way" attitude -- members equivating having messed up on an inconsequential rule with imperfection, and deciding that since they're imperfect anyway, why follow other (more important) rules; (2) social shunning of the unshaven by the good-LDS crowd, driving them to socialize with less faithful members and be subject to adverse peer pressure; (3) excessive effort spent in useless rituals which distracts from needed effort elsewhere; (4) unhealthy fixation on these traits as evidence of overall righteous living. I would guess that empirically, it is most likely this policy does more good than it does harm. But these tradeoffs are not without individual costs. I have wondered about the harmful results of this kind of policy. While it’s true that a lot of LDS kids can use this to get through their rebellious stage without doing major damage, the policy can have a harmful effect on substantial minorities in a couple of different ways.

Most possible harm comes from the fact that this causes LDS kids to lump harmless behaviors (not shaving) with harmful behaviors (drinking, premarital sex). This could (1) lead to an “I blew it, I might as well go all the way” attitude — members equivating having messed up on an inconsequential rule with imperfection, and deciding that since they’re imperfect anyway, why follow other (more important) rules; (2) social shunning of the unshaven by the good-LDS crowd, driving them to socialize with less faithful members and be subject to adverse peer pressure; (3) excessive effort spent in useless rituals which distracts from needed effort elsewhere; (4) unhealthy fixation on these traits as evidence of overall righteous living.

I would guess that empirically, it is most likely this policy does more good than it does harm. But these tradeoffs are not without individual costs.

]]> By: Nate http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11799 Nate Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11799 Kaimi, I agree that the policy has some definite down sides. (I actually subscribe to the heretical belief that BYU would not descend into some anarchic combination of Berkley and Florida State if the Dress and Grooming Code were repealed.) On the other hand, I don't think that (1) is a real concern. I am not aware of anyone who says, "Shucks! I didn't shave and got rejected at the testing center. I might as well embark on a life of fornication and substance abuse!" Kaimi, I agree that the policy has some definite down sides. (I actually subscribe to the heretical belief that BYU would not descend into some anarchic combination of Berkley and Florida State if the Dress and Grooming Code were repealed.)

On the other hand, I don’t think that (1) is a real concern. I am not aware of anyone who says, “Shucks! I didn’t shave and got rejected at the testing center. I might as well embark on a life of fornication and substance abuse!”

]]> By: Melissa Proctor http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11800 Melissa Proctor Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11800 For an interesting paper on the LDS modesty campaign, which began with Brigham Young, and was emphasized again with President Kimball (BYU women used to get some pressure about whether or not their wardrobe was "kimballized"), watch for Katie Blakesley's paper coming out in the Smith Institute Summer Seminar proceedings volume this Spring. She explores some of the larger implicit issues behind the changing dress codes. Melissa For an interesting paper on the LDS modesty campaign, which began with Brigham Young, and was emphasized again with President Kimball (BYU women used to get some pressure about whether or not their wardrobe was “kimballized”), watch for Katie Blakesley’s paper coming out in the Smith Institute Summer Seminar proceedings volume this Spring. She explores some of the larger implicit issues behind the changing dress codes.

Melissa

]]> By: Ady Hahn a.k.a. fly_killa http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-byu-dress-and-grooming-code/#comment-11801 Ady Hahn a.k.a. fly_killa Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=194#comment-11801 Fortunately, (or is that unfortunately) I did not attend the Y and thus did not have to worry about the Code. My husband, however, was able to obtain a beard card (for a "skin condition"). Where there's a will, there's a way. Fortunately, (or is that unfortunately) I did not attend the Y and thus did not have to worry about the Code. My husband, however, was able to obtain a beard card (for a “skin condition”). Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

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